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mwmoore10261
04-07-2010, 02:13 PM
I have been using a Lee powder measure for over 10 years. Now I want to upgrade to a Lyman or RCBS. I see that the RCBS Uniflow is not recommended for black powder whereas the Lyman 55 is. RCBS does make a black powder measure at almost twice the price. Any thoughts as to which hand cranked measure turns out a consistant load?
Michael Moore, 10261

Joe 3rd N C Art 2440V
04-07-2010, 02:52 PM
Neither the Lyman 55 or the RCBS Uniflow are recomended for black powder. The Lyman comes in a variation that is however. I has a larger brass hopper with a drop tube and the price to go with it. That said; I have been using an R C B S Uniflow for 39 years and I still have all my fingers. Use a powder baffle and get to the grain charges from top to bottom of the hopper. :)

Walt Magee
04-07-2010, 08:37 PM
Lee makes a plastic powder measure that sells for about $18. It's called the Perfect powder measure; it drops accurate loads if you keep it at least 1/2 full. It's small enough to mount on a square board and clamp to the bench. At that price you could have one for each gun. I've used them for years and black powder has no effect on them.
Cheap and Good, a great combination.
Walt Magee

matt
04-08-2010, 07:32 AM
i use the lyman 55 with aluminum baffle and powder resevoir and drop tubes. i find that for throwing bp it works great very stable in charge weight the problem is that when you have to change the charge it is trial and error till you find the right setting. it is very difficult to read markings on the slides and the bottem drum cant be seen at all unless you have the handle rotated. as for throwing smokeless i have never gotten this measure to throw anything even close to being consistant it is all over the place one high next low so i only use it for bp.
if you can mount high enough to use the drop tubes the do work well, also this measure can be press mounted which is a great thing if your using a progressive press or a turret. expensive yes, difficult to set the charge yes but very well made and very accurate onece the charge is set. just keep the screws tight and make sure that the left hand screw that holds the whole thing in is very tight or you will get increasingly heavier charges.
matt
winslow's battery 9775v

Pat in Virginia
04-10-2010, 03:08 PM
Have you considered buying a used Belding & Mull powder measure. I have been very satisfied with that one. I bought mine used from Joe Hepsworth, he's into long rang muzzle loading (and holds some world records), and is the owner operator of J. Cunard & Co. at 740-345-6646; http://www.jcunard.com .

Awhile back I did a short study on how accurately I could throw charges with the hand held powder measures using Swiss 2F and 1.5 F, and Schutzen 2F.
I also used the Bell and Mull measure just to see how well it did.

I posted the results of this non-scientific study on the LRML (Long Range Muzzle Loader) forum. I'm going to try to retrieve that info and post the results here. I think you will find the results very interesting. Here's the LRML Forum post: http://www.lrml.org/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl

"I spent the afternoon yesterday doing an experiment wherein I used three different powder measures accumulated over the years with all of them set to a reading of 85. I hand threw loads (3 each) for Swiss 2F, Swiss 1.5F, and Scheutzen (Wano) 2F and recorded their individual weights.

I then used a Belding and Mull Powder Dispenser with one of the powder measures to throw the charges again for Swiss 2F, Swiss 1.5F, and Scheutzen (Wano) 2F. The individual charge weights and averages are in an Excel spreadsheet which I will attach and hope you can read as it is not one of the listed supported file types. If it doesn't work, I'll skin the beast another way and post that. It's now a PDF file.

The spreadsheet also contains the process I used, some important info on the way the Belding & Mull powder dispenser works and some of my observations that resulted as I was performing the experiment. The results definitely show that the graduation marks on your powder measure cannot be relied on to correspond to a particular charge weight. The powder measures all differ with regard to the weight of charge they thow for the same setting for the same powder sometimes significanlty (up to 5 grains for Swiss 2F and and 7 grains for Swiss 1.5F for example at a setting of 85).

If you are interested in the Belding & Mull powder dispenser, I'm going to start another topic in the Powder & Bullets (LRML Forum), etc. section where I'll post a picture and mention a couple of mods I made to mine that I feel are nice improvements. "[attachment=0:f4avyltt]Powder Measure Test by Weight & Brand.xls[/attachment:f4avyltt]

MR. GADGET
04-11-2010, 09:43 PM
What the B&M selling for? I have one that I don't use and have been thinking about selling.

mwmoore10261
04-12-2010, 03:15 AM
I took the advice and bought a belding and mull measure on eBay for $48. I also bought just the rotor portion of a Lee Perfect Measure so I could set it up for my revolver(I have the hopper already). I paid $7.00 for it. Thanks for the help from your years of experience.
Michael Moore, 10261

RangerFrog
04-12-2010, 02:19 PM
What the B&M selling for? I have one that I don't use and have been thinking about selling.

Like anything else, there is a range of prices for the B&M, with features such as reservoir (brass or plastic) and size and type of drop tube as well as overall condition affecting the overall value. As the previous poster showed, you can sometimes find one on the low side of $50, but generally a brass reservoir measure in good shape and with a good drop tube is going for somewhere one the order of $75 to $125 with more for a micrometer drop tube, original box and instructions, etc, etc. As you can tell from the tone of my answer, I don't think there is one simple definitive answer to your question, but that is the best I can manage based on a bunch of gun shows and collecting of reloading stuff.

HTH ~ Froggie

Pat in Virginia
04-12-2010, 04:12 PM
Michael, it sounds like you snagged a B&M powder measure for a very good price. Congratulations!

As I indicated in an earlier post (and on the LRML Forum as well) I made two mods to mine that I thought I would make sure you knew about in case you haven't visited the LRML Forum.

First, I replaced the spring. The original spring which you may or may not have is very stiff. If the spring is very stiff, I recommend you extract it from the measure and replace it with a weaker spring. Operation is a lot smoother that way.

Second, the glass in the sliding hopper is easily broken. I like to take things apart and mine quickly developed a line crack. When reading-up on the B&M initially I learned this was a common occurence and one recommendation which I liked was to replace the glass with some clear Lexan. I did that. I went to Lowes and found an 8X10 inch sheet of Lexan that is approx .1 inch thick. I cut a 1.4 X 1.4 inch square piece out of the sheet with a fine bladed hacksaw and filed it to fit the hopper window. It works great, looks good, and it ain't gonna break.

If you want me to cut a like-size piece out out of the remaining part of my Lexan sheet for you me know and I'll be happy to send it to you with my compliments.

mwmoore10261
04-18-2010, 10:07 AM
Thanks Pat for the Lexan. I changed the spring and it works a lot smoother. The drop tube measure goes from 0-50. The numbers don't correlate to grain charges but once set I can use the numbers as a reference for charge sizes for my different weapons. Is the micrometer drop tube worth the expense or ease of having a second drop tube preset for another size charge?
Michael Moore, 10261

mike owsiak
04-18-2010, 01:31 PM
Mike I have a copy of the B&M slide setting chart if you would like one call me at 856-596-0177 and give me your address. I will mail you one.MIKE O

Pat in Virginia
04-18-2010, 05:07 PM
Michael,

What is the weight of 2F or 1.5F powder your measure will hold at a setting of 50? What is the weight of powder at the zero setting? I want to be clear on that so that I'll know if you have a powder measure designed for pistol charges. Hopefully, the range of powder accomodated will be close to 40 - 110 grains.

If it turns out the charge at a setting of 50 is approximately 50 grains, order a rifle powder measure for the Belding & Mull from from Joe Hepsworth at jcunard.com or 740-345-6646. Be sure to let him know it's for a B&M. His powder measures for the B&M are turned at the top so they are a snug fit into the B&M.

In any case, let me know what you find when you weigh the charges and before you order anything. I'd hate to give you bad advice.


Pat

mwmoore10261
04-18-2010, 07:04 PM
The measure is 0 at zero and throws a 80 grain charge of Goex 3F (that's all
I shoot) at 50. This will cover all my carbines and muskets. I use 43 grains for musket and 28 grains for my Maynards.
Michael Moore,10261

Pat in Virginia
04-19-2010, 11:34 AM
Michael,

I think I figured out what is going on with the powder measure you have. It is probably an original B&M measure and is therefore designed for smokeless powder charges.

I'm mildly into mid and long range black powder shooting (200, 300, 600, 800, 900, 1000 yards) where 90 or 95 grains of 1.5F Swiss would probably be my top charge for the longer ranges depending on the rifle. At mid ranges 60-85 grains will probably do it. So our max powder capacity needs are different.

I'm glad to know the measure you have covers your needs.

With regard to your question about the micrometer drop tube being worth while. I think probably not as long as your primary tube is calibrated so that you can reliably repeat the settings. There are so many variables involved in BP shooting/loading, including relative humidity, that I expect to have to be prepared to adjust my loads or my aim a tiny bit when I'm shooting and I don't think I'm unique in that regard.

If I were using the B&M for pistol loads I would probably change my opinion as to the value of the micrometer tube.

Pat

Ron/The Old Reb
04-20-2010, 08:44 AM
I have two original B&M power measures both with micrometer drop tubs. The micrometer tub makes it a lot easer to adjust the charge a few grains up or down. As to whether it is worth the extra money, I do not think the difference in price is that great. To me if it makes the job of loading easer it's worth it. I once read 'If you buy a cheap tool you will curse it every time you use it. But if you buy a good tool you will soon forget what you paid for it". :D

John Maderious
04-21-2010, 12:32 AM
A few years ago I was lamenting the numerous powder measures I had for various guns, getting them up and functioning smoothly after being idle most of the winter, etc., and my wife bought me a Harrells Precision measure. The cost is more than I would have spent on myself, about $200, but I love it. Easily reset, never binds, no maintenance, just works great all the time and throws accurately consistently. Very easy to reset. Saves me tens of hours every year. It is a B&M type I am thinking, but I have never had a Belding & Mull so I don't know for sure. Made in VA. Harrellsprec.com
John Maderious WBR 10223

RangerFrog
04-21-2010, 07:05 AM
It is a B&M type I am thinking, but I have never had a Belding & Mull so I don't know for sure. Made in VA. Harrellsprec.com
John Maderious WBR 10223

John,

The Harrells and the B&M are built on two entirely different designs. The B&M uses a separate drop tube into which the powder is measured and from which the powder is dispensed. The Harrell, on the other hand, is a modern adaptation of the the Culver conversion of the Lyman #55 that came out just about the time the #55 was introduced and was popular with the Bench Rest crowd. At least a few examples (of the Culver, that is) were even built on the one piece cast iron Ideal #5 measure body.

The Harrell Measures are great measuring instruments, but Harrell does not recommend all of them for BP use, while the B&M (being made of several metals and glass) are generally assumed to all be safe for BP unless you get one of the odd ball examples with the plastic powder reservoir.

Regards,
Froggie

PS I may be a little weird here, but I like the old micrometer version of the #5 for a lot of my loading... and since I use the same charge in my Remington revolver and my reduced capacity Maynard rounds and twice that same charge in my Zouave, my micrometer doesn't need a lot of adjusting! 8)

Paul Stephenson
04-22-2010, 01:05 PM
Does anyone use a Cal-Graf that is made for black powder? The one I have is made from wood and brass.
It has given me good service.

mikea
04-22-2010, 01:17 PM
This is to second what John Maderious wrote:
I have no experience with the Belding & Mull measures but bought a Harrell a few years ago. My opinion of it is that it is first rate piece of equipment - if I lost it I would buy another one immediately. It is expensive but you get what you pay for. The micrometer adjustment works great and it is quick and easy to go back to a setting used previously when changing powders and/or loads.
I bought mine directly from Harrell, which I recommend. If you plan to use it with black powder they will sell it with an aluminium hopper as well as the plastic one for use with smokeless powder.

mikea
04-22-2010, 01:43 PM
Paul-
Saw your post re the Cal-Graf after posting my last. I started out with one of them about 8 yrs. ago and did get good service from it, but adjusting the tubes to go back to a prior weight is a pain. There isn't much of a way around this except to buy multiple tubes and leave each of them set for a particular powder/load. Since getting the Harrell the Cal-Graf has been sitting on a shelf unused. If I knew then what I know now I would have bought the Harrell to begin with - it was twice as expensive as the Cal-Graf was but it's much smaller in size and VASTLY easier and quicker to use.

Paul Stephenson
04-22-2010, 04:58 PM
I have not used anything other than a scale. It beats the heck out of that. I do have separate charge tubes for each of my BP guns. I have been using the Cal-Graf 8 or 10 years and have made some modifications to it over that period of time.

04-27-2010, 04:05 PM
I have found that the Harrell's measures are the absolute Cadillac of powder measures. The throw arm rides on ball bearings for smooth operation, the adjustment is via a graduated, click-adjustable knob, and they are so accurate that I don't even bother weighing each charge anymore for my 1,000-yard BPCR shooting. You can find them here, or at Buffalo Arms.

http://www.harrellsprec.com/