A little help to get started...

[pittguy12]

I finally have the resources to look into purchasing my first Civil War black powder musket/rifle. Originally I began my search with the only intention of using it for hunting but after having discovered this organization, I am very much interested in the competition side of it as well.

As I start into my adventure though, I find myself overwhelmed with many of the items you all discuss in this forum and I am hoping someone can help me "get started" on the right path. I look forward to getting into some of the advanced stuff, molding your own minnies for instance, but I do need that first step!

So, my first task is to purchase the rifle. I have narrowed it down to three: 1861 Springfield, 1861 Enfield, or the 1862 Richmond Rifle. Obviously I am most interested in accuracy and value. I gather from my research so far that much of the accuracy part is about powder charges and minnie type...however, my experience with modern rifles tells me equipment is important. Does anyone have a good suggestion for one of these over the other? Do reproductions from Armi Sport or the Springfield from Cabella's suffice as quality pieces?

My other question is, is my first task even on the right path! Is the rifle/musket the right choice or should I be looking for a carbine or other piece?

Thanks so much for your help...your organization seems great and I am excited to get involved!

[Joe 3rd N C Art 2440V]

where do ou live. maybe I can direct you to some help.

[pittguy12]

Richmond, Virginia

[Joe 3rd N C Art 2440V]

Lots of us around Richmond. Suggest you go to main web page (www.N-SSA.org (http://www.N-SSA.org)) and look at the team roster for The Tidewater Region. You can probably find a good contact there. I'm on coast of North Carolina. A little far away. Good luck and God Bless.

[mikea]

By all means, do as Joe suggested and contact members in the Richmond area. They will be happy to help you. A member helped me a lot when I was first getting started. A musket is probably the best place to start. The principal choices involve 2 vs. 3 band length, Springfield/Richmond vs. Enfield stock styles and sight type & location. It helps to handle them and discuss the pros & cons with experienced members before you decide what to buy.
You can do this easily if you come over to Winchester to visit the Spring Nationals at Ft. Shenandoah the weekend of May 23 - 25. There will be a number of sutlers there selling guns and everything you need to shoot them. You can look them over, talk to people about them, etc. I have found prices there are as good or better than anywhere else. The sutlers set up by Thursday evening but are leaving Sunday morning, so Friday & Saturday are the main times to be there, plus you can also watch the skirmish matches.

[matt]

also dont disregard the 1842 rifled musket or the 1855 model 1 as i feel they have sight advantages that the 61 springfiled doesnt have seems that the long range sights work better for my eyes and are easier for me to sight in. the musket will take tuning and accurizing to make it competitive for our style of shooting. hope this helps
matt
winslows battery 9775v

[Joe Plakis, 9575V]

If it is hunting only that you want to do it might be best to go with a Richmond Carbine from James River or S&S or a Enfield Musketoon. It can also we shot in N-SSA competition.

But as a hunting piece both barrels are short and easy to lug through the woods and have good accuracy.

[Paul Lampman 263V]

Going to the Nationals is excellent advice. You could also come up this weekend to the Potomac Regional. There won't be any (maybe one) sutlers but you could get a chance to hold, feel and shoulder a number of various types of guns and see a Skirmish. You can spend the night in our bunk house, plenty of room. We'll even feed you.

Our team, Cockade Rifles, is based out of Petersburg but we have members all over several states. I'm in Chesapeake but we have several in the Hopewell, Chester, Richmond area.

Fell free to contact me if you like.

phlampman@cox.net
757-535-7393

[Fauch125]

It can't be overemphasized that you need to talk to some skirmishers BEFORE you buy anything. You'll be much happier if you wait to find a quality rifle at the price you're willing to pay than to buy a rifle, learn about its shortcomings the hard way, and try to modify it to suit your needs (competition or hunting).
I'm brand new to the organization, will be shooting in the Spring National next month. I bought a reproduction 1861 for hunting last year, had some trouble with accuracy, and was invited by a former teacher to last years Fall Nationals. I ended up building a musket from parts, several of which I picked up from Sutler's Row at the Fort. The repro is now awaiting its fate in a closet.
I tried to mine the web for info, but a long weekend at the Fort at the Nationals is much more efficient, and you can see the results.
BTW, my former teacher is in the Allegheny Region, and I live in New England, so I had to look for a team cold. This requires some patience and persistance. Several of the links for teams in the region were no longer valid. I ended up sending an e-mail to the regional commander, asking about teams looking for members. I was able to attend a team meeting for the 4th Virginia, and was invited to join.
Its been my experience that the N-SSA represents some of the best offhand shooters I've ever seen. A lot of these expert shooters do not post on the internet. The regional matches and the Nationals are the best places to meet and to learn.
Also, my Springfield will be coming into the woods with me this Fall. Please send a private message if my recent experience in joing an N-SSA team can be of help to you.
Jon Faucher

[pastore]

Give me a call. I am in Chester. I am a member of the Cockade Rifles. I would be glad to share any knowledge I have with you. I have quite a variety of muskets, and carbines, and revolvers. I have been skirmishing for 42 years so I have picked up a few hints.

Fletcher Pastore

748-2881

[Southron Sr.]

Dear Pittguy 12

I would highly reccomend that you get into contact with the "Commanders" of several different units in your area. Then ask to go to one of their team meetings or practice shoots.That way you can find the unit you like the best. Usually you will find many Skirmishers who are glad to help a new muzzleloader "learn the ropes."

As you can tell by the number of replies you got to your inquiry-the BEST thing about the N-SSA is all the wonderful people that make it up. So be prepared to make some new friends!

I have been shooting since 1968 and believe me, I have pretty well shot a lot of different rifles and rifle muskets, originals and repros. I would highly recommend that you go with a "two bander" like an Enfield Naval Rifle or a M1855 Harpers Ferry Brass Mounted Rifle, a Chattahoochee two bander, Special Model of 1861 or Mississippi Rifle. Why do I recommend "two banders?"

1. They have a "higher rate of fire" because there is 6 INCHES LESS of the barrel you have to ram a Minie ball down and 6 INCHES LESS of barrel you have to pull your ramrod out of!

2. Barrels of two banders are "stiffer" and all other things being equal, are a bit more accurate.

3. Two Banders are just better balanced and handle better.

Now, the MAIN REASON the Ordnance Department stuck with the "THREE BANDER" during the Civil War had NOTHING to do with ACCURACY but had everything to do with battlefield FORMATIONS.

Formations were two or three ranks deep, so the soldiers had to have rifle-muskets with long barrels so the muzzles of the muskets (when fired) of the men in
the rear ranks would be above and slightly in front of the men in the front ranks!

Over the years I have also noticed that many of the teams that Win the Nationals are often armed with "two banders." That says it all.

I would suggest that you meet some Skirmishers,go to some "Practice Shoots" with them and try shooting both two banders and three banders, Enfields and Springfields. Fnd the one you are most confortable with. The one that feels "best" to you and that is the one to get.

GOOD LUCK!

[pittguy12]

Wow, thank you all. Your advice is much appreciated and your kindness to help me out is more than I could have expected. I may not be the smartest but I am smart enough to listen to good advice...I will be waiting until at least a trip to the national match in May before making any decisions. Thank you to the Cockade RIfles for the offer of hospitality. As the event draws closer, I may take you up on your offer if there is a bed available.

Not only will I be looking forward to trying out the equipment...I must admit, being able to see artillery, mortars, and small arms in one day is a chance I won't miss out on!

Fletcher, thank you for the offer. I spoke with a member of your team earlier and he mentioned that you might be available to share any knowledge. I am pretty tied up for the next week or so but I do plan on giving you a call when things die down a little bit.

Thank you all once again...can't wait to get involved.

[Paul Lampman 263V]

The offer to stay in our bunkhouse stands for when ever you decide to come up, no strings attached. That will provide you the opportunity to see everything. We will be at Winchester for the Chesapeake Reg (Arp 23-25) and the CV Reg (May 7-9). You are welcome any time.

[pittguy12]

Thank you. Once I get my plans firmed up I will contact you to make firm plans.

By the way, Southron Sr, I enjoyed the background knowledge. Without knowing any better, I would have have thought the three band would have been much more accurate. Can't wait to "feel" the difference myself.