Burnside Minies Question?

[2horses]

Hi guys and gals.
Does anyone have a lead on some lead bullets .562 diameter, for my Burnside Carbine?
Or, any tips on reloading for it.
I was told it has Gain Twist, and that round balls dont work very good in it.
Lee makes a .562 roundball mold. But no Minies that I can find.
Thanks for your help!
Terry
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[John Holland]

Yes, your Burnside does have gain twist rifling. The Burnside is known to shoot quite well with a round ball at 50 yards. I have found gain twist rifled barrels to be quite unforgiving in load combinations. They seem to have a narrow window of what will shoot accurately from them. As for using any type of Minie Ball you may find that the overall length will not permit the breech to close.

We do have some members who shoot the Burnside, perhaps they will share their knowledge, if they see this.

[2horses]

Yes, your Burnside does have gain twist rifling. The Burnside is known to shoot quite well with a round ball at 50 yards. I have found gain twist rifled barrels to be quite unforgiving in load combinations. They seem to have a narrow window of what will shoot accurately from them. As for using any type of Minie Ball you may find that the overall length will not permit the breech to close.

We do have some members who shoot the Burnside, perhaps they will share their knowledge, if they see this.Great! Thank John!

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[2horses]

Yeah the round ball was the ONLY projectile I could shoot accurately (and consistently) out of my Burnside. Don't forget to add a large glob of grease on top.That's Great to hear, thank you!
So, it will be worthwhile to buy the Lee .562.
I'd rather ask first, than buy the stuff, and find out later, that wont work!
Thanks Terry

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[Eggman]

Mr. Horses,
Hopefully your experience with the Burnside will be a good one. The gun presents a unique problem -- on loading the cartridge is in one end of the gun,the breech, and the bullet or ball in the other -- the barrel. Betwixt the two is a gap. By design this gap is filled by a thin rim or flange on the front end of the cartridge. This gap filling rim or flange can only take so many shocks before it fails. Without this rim or flange there is a large port available for gas leakage. Leakage like this causes velocity variations, and ergo, erratic hits on the target.
So there is your challenge. Buying new cases over time will bankrupt you. Rounds for the Civil War guys were provided by the government which had its own printing presses for printing money. Not so for our Burnside shooters, many of whom are now homeless and living on the streets of San Francisco.

[Robt. Propst]

Rapine had made a mold for a Burnside years ago, it was a short non-Minie bullet. Dixie also had an inexpensive mold of an original style Burnside bullet. I don’t know how lucky you might be to locate either- I sold mine years ago. And as the Eggster says, sometimes the cartridge fails to seal and you get some escape of gas. Considering it vents right at your wrist, I always wore a long, heavy glove to protect my wrist. A blast of hot gas on skin affects follow through significantly, before even considering any velocity variation. But good luck! When a Burnside behaves it is fun to shoot.

[2horses]

Rapine had made a mold for a Burnside years ago, it was a short non-Minie bullet. Dixie also had an inexpensive mold of an original style Burnside bullet. I don’t know how lucky you might be to locate either- I sold mine years ago. And as the Eggster says, sometimes the cartridge fails to seal and you get some escape of gas. Considering it vents right at your wrist, I always wore a long, heavy glove to protect my wrist. A blast of hot gas on skin affects follow through significantly, before even considering any velocity variation. But good luck! When a Burnside behaves it is fun to shoot.Thank you Robert!
Very interesting info, that I did not know.
I'll keep the glove in mind!
Terry

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[CAGerringer]

2 Horses,
Lodgewood Mfg. Ltd. offers nylon Burnside cartridge cases for $.75 a piece. They say they'll last longer than the brass cartridges, which is why I sold my Burnside. It was a museum quality, 4th model, and one of the most beautifully machined weapons I'd ever seen. That said, it would blow the lip off a $5.00 brass cartridge in about 4 or 5 shots. Unfortunately, the nylon cases weren't available back then.
As a side note, when I sold the Burnside in 1995 I bought a top of the line metal detector. I took that thing with me for a 3 year tour in Stuttgart Germany. The very first thing I dug up was an unexploded WW2 US Incendiary bomb! That put an end to my 'Battlefield Archaeology'.
Bottom line....wish I still had the Burnside!
Charlie Gerringer
Old Dominion Dragoons

[Hal]

I've had quite the opposite experience from Burnside cases. The plastic ones last me exactly one shot. The brass ones? I haven't counted, but MANY MANY shots and no detectable leakage. The bad thing is I've yet to find a suitable load. Also, I've yet to get a good measurement on the 3 groove rifling, but that's my fault. I have someone willing to do it for me, but I need to slug my bore again, as I have no idea what I did with the slug I did it with last time. At any rate, I SUSPECT that my barrel would prefer a bullet larger than the ID of my brass cases. I'm only able to JUST get a .556" bullet into my cases, and I suspect I need something a little larger, but I'm not sure what to do about that. Getting a good measure on the land diameter will be the right next step. I have shot round balls, but never got it to group much better than about 3-4 inches at 50 yards and I'm about the same with an Accurate Moulds 56-450B. That bullet will JUST chamber, and I've had someone else tell me they had to remove the guide screw on a 5th Model to get that bullet to chamber in theirs. Mine will do it with the screw in place, but just barely. Accurate Moulds makes a 56-450 mould that is made for you to use a core pin in. You could make it flat bottom, concave, or hollow base. That MAY be what I try next if it proves I need a larger bullet than what will fit in my cases. A Minie would expand into the rifling and maybe solve my problem.

And yes, I know. There wasn't a 5th Model......nor a 64-1/2 Mustang.......

[2horses]

I've had quite the opposite experience from Burnside cases. The plastic ones last me exactly one shot. The brass ones? I haven't counted, but MANY MANY shots and no detectable leakage. The bad thing is I've yet to find a suitable load. Also, I've yet to get a good measurement on the 3 groove rifling, but that's my fault. I have someone willing to do it for me, but I need to slug my bore again, as I have no idea what I did with the slug I did it with last time. At any rate, I SUSPECT that my barrel would prefer a bullet larger than the ID of my brass cases. I'm only able to JUST get a .556" bullet into my cases, and I suspect I need something a little larger, but I'm not sure what to do about that. Getting a good measure on the land diameter will be the right next step. I have shot round balls, but never got it to group much better than about 3-4 inches at 50 yards and I'm about the same with an Accurate Moulds 56-450B. That bullet will JUST chamber, and I've had someone else tell me they had to remove the guide screw on a 5th Model to get that bullet to chamber in theirs. Mine will do it with the screw in place, but just barely. Accurate Moulds makes a 56-450 mould that is made for you to use a core pin in. You could make it flat bottom, concave, or hollow base. That MAY be what I try next if it proves I need a larger bullet than what will fit in my cases. A Minie would expand into the rifling and maybe solve my problem.

And yes, I know. There wasn't a 5th Model......nor a 64-1/2 Mustang.......From other readings I've read. Ive been told to use a .562 round ball.
Is there any way you could flare your brass?
There must be alot of variations?
I like the minie bullets that accurate has, but wanted someone else's experience first.
I had a trapdoor that took me forever to get a proper measurement with he 3 groove rifling.
It should be .459. And is .463+
Bingo! Groups are 1-2" now at 100yds, most of the time.
It's a blast to shoot now.
Thanks for your input!
Terry

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[Hal]

I shot the .562 round ball. I just didn't force them down into the case so much as I 'wedged' them in there. They aren't seated all the way in, just kinda sitting on top. They don't come out and you have to use pliers to pull one.

[2horses]

I shot the .562 round ball. I just didn't force them down into the case so much as I 'wedged' them in there. They aren't seated all the way in, just kinda sitting on top. They don't come out and you have to use pliers to pull one.Thanks Hal! I can't wait to get my mold!
Thanks for your input!
Shooting a piece of C.W. history is just nothing but the BEST!
Was reading, approx. 53,000 made of a 100,000 contract.
Mine is 33,000.
All matching numbers!
She's been used and abused, but I LOVE her!

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[Carolina Reb]

My first breechloader was a Burnside, and I’ve had a few more since then.

If the breechblock serial number matches the rest of the gun, cartridges should fit fine and not leak. If the block has been replaced, there can be problems.

The brass cases from 30 years ago did not fit the chamber particularly well. They would blow out the case mouths with heavy loads. That said, I still have some of those old cases and they have been loaded well over 50 times. The newer cases fit great and will last many years of skirmishing. If you are planning to skirmish with it as your primary carbine, invest in brass cases.

I have fooled with round ball loads and never had much luck. Four or five shots would hit right next to each other, then a round would go completely wild.

The Rapine Burnside bullet (and its clones from other mold makers) shoots better in Merrills than Burnsides. It’s too light. My best results have been with bullets around 400 grains. Accurate Molds makes several Burnside molds. 56-390, 56-450 and 56-450BN work well. 56-450BN is a hollow base and you have to make the base pin, so it’s not exactly easy to get working. Longer bullets may hang up when closing the action. The 56-450 has this problem with some carbines. If that happens, take out the breechblock guide screw on the right side of the frame. That allows the breech to open a little farther.

An issue that sometimes come up is that the barrel grooves were individually cut. Some can be deeper than others. One carbine I worked on had one groove that wanted a 0.562” bullet. Bullets that big won’t fit in a cartridge. A soft cast hollow base bullet is the only way to go if you have this problem.

The other consideration with Burnsides is the weird stock. It doesn’t hold like any other carbine. You really need to shoot it a lot to get good with it. When I was only shooting a Burnside, I did pretty well with it. When I was shooting it as a backup, my hit times went way down.

Overall, it is a fun carbine on the line.

[hobbler]

Sounds like the Ideal 557456 minie was made for the Burnside.

[Southron Sr.]

Although he is located in England, just let him know what size mould you need, pay him and he will airmail the mould to you in a week or so. I have purchased several moulds from him and am very happy with his moulds and service:

http://www.ballmoulds.com/

[2horses]

Although he is located in England, just let him know what size mould you need, pay him and he will airmail the mould to you in a week or so. I have purchased several moulds from him and am very happy with his moulds and service:

http://www.ballmoulds.com/Thanks for the TIP!

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[johnsymborski]

I've slugged my 5th model Burnside and found it to be .560 max (bottom of groove to bottom of groove). THATS why one shoots a .562 roundball - but it doesn't want to fit well into a brass case (.556 I.D.) and will swell the case mouth if forced. So I used an adjustable reamer to get .562 I.D. -- a touchy job so I 'hand reamed' it with a shop-made case holder. (piece of 1/2" copper plumbing tube with a couple slits in the end and a pipe clamp on the outside to tighten the holder onto the narrow lip behind the 'swell' near the case mouth. Yes, the case mouth is very thin after this (had to sand slightly so as not to cut myself on the case mouth), but I also lathe cut .030 wide copper rings from the copper tube, then soldered them behind the 'swell' at the case mouth so it will properly 'fill' the semi-circular profile near the case mouth when the action is closed. I had to solder .030 #8 brass washers onto the base of each case to get the Overall case length up to 1.870 +/- .005. This also fits my action and fully seats the sliding piece holding the nipple when the action is closed. Soooo, a conical round needs to be at least .001 larger than the maximum bore size, ergo .562 is also good. This is why so many burnside conical rounds don't shoot well - they don't swage properly to the bore when fired and there is too much blow-by. Accurate molds are .560 O.D. - but if the mold is heated-up good, they can come out .561, which will be OK. The longer one is too big to chamber properly, so I milled off some from mine and the results are better (but still not there yet). The bullet weight is now 415 grains (was 435), but I believe that something around 390 - 400 grains will work better. BTW, my .452 roundball load is with 37.5 gr. 3F (drop tube), with a styrofoam wad pressed over that, and a dab of lithium grease - all in the black at 50 yds. I'd like to try the nylon tubes .... why not?

[noonanda]

Accurate Molds LLC makes a great mold for the burnsides, Sigle Cavity cost me 81.50 shipped to my door. It casts a very nice bullet. You can get different sizes, I went with the .562 based on having slugged the bore with some .562 Burnsides I had bought online.