Removing sprus from roundball.

[BoomerT]

Only my second year shooting and I love it. I currently remove the sprues on my .69 round balls with a spruce tool fitted in a drill press. Seems a lengthy and monotonas chore. Just curious as to if there are other techniques?Thanks for the help.

[Lou Lou Lou]

Some people use farrier files to rough them up. Nick Lucas sells a “dimpled” to give a golf all like air flow

[PoorJack]

I used to do all that stuff till deciding on trying an experiment to determine if all that work actually did anything. Tried leaving the sprue on and no filing or dimpling. Loaded tube sprue up, dip exposed part in musket lube. Load by pulling ball, pour powder, place ball lube side with sprue toward powder and ram and shoot.

Shazam. Best groups yet, like a 1.5in group at 25yds. Point is, all these guns are different. Experiment with yours to find what works best for you.

[Maillemaker]

I used to use the Mike Rouche sprue cutter with my drill press, and then roll the balls between two files. This obscured the sprue, but also roughened up the ball to better hold lube and slightly increase the diameter of the ball. But this was tedious and it made my hands hurt, so I invented this machine:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC2Yy4O-7uE

You can buy them here:

http://forth-armoury.com/index.html

Steve

[Fire18WFD]

71967197 $15. at the Fort.

[toot]

where can i find info. on it? YOU TUBE? i have never seen or heard of one be fore, thanks, all to get rid of a sprue. some people use swagged lead balls, no sprue on them.

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

So which combination gave you the best?

[Fire18WFD]

where can i find info. on it? YOU TUBE? i have never seen or heard of one be fore, thanks, all to get rid of a sprue. some people use swagged lead balls, no sprue on them.

PM your email to me please. I will send you video. Thanks

[PoorJack]

So which combination gave you the best?

Exactly as I described. Ball as cast, no dimples, no alox, no farrier file, no sprue removal. I put 65gr 3f Old Eynsford in the tube, put the ball into the tube sprue up, dip the exposed part of the ball a couple times in Lens lube. To load, I remove the ball from the tube, pour powder in barrel, ram ball down lube side to powder, cap and shoot. Will this work for everybody, probably not. Point is to experiment, there is no hard and fast rule other than powder and cap are needed along with the ball to fire the gun😁

If I were to think of revisiting this again, I'd find someone with the ball roller and get them to roll some to try. If the combo works, by all means I'd buy one but if it didn't, them I'm not out much. At this moment, unless I find accuracy falling off, I'm not going to mess with what works in MY gun. YMMV.

[PoorJack]

A MOST INTERESTING post! It's always fun to read a post that defies all logic. It would SEEM that when the ball with sprue to rear begins to rotate in the barrel, as it surely will, the sprue would come in contact with the inside wall thereby freezing the ball in position, and thus would subsequently countenance an exit from the muzzle with no stabilizing spin at all --- much the same as all those patched balls we fired all those years never hitting anything, not until Jim Leineki taught us the feathering thing.
Please please please please Poor Jack come down to Eva in Nov. and demonstrate for us. And yes I agree with you, it certainly is magic.

How do you KNOW it will rotate on ingnition? How do you KNOW the sprue will "bind"? You don't, it's all guessing. What is happening is obturation of the ball from ignition and any spin is random. It is a smoothbore after all unless you're doing something way against the rules. Any obturation of the ball, read "flattening" will mitigate against any rotation or "rolling" of the ball in the bore since the ball is no longer round at ignition.

My saga with an HP Gregory Macon- I got the gun used. I tried the exact load the previous owner was using- file roughed ball, alox dip, 45gr 3f, dip in musket lube. It shot just "ok", like about 4in at 25yds. Yup, it'd break something most of the time but I felt it could be better. So I embarked on an experimentation program changing one variable at the time and part of that program involved shooting the gun with no changes in anything for a baseline, although I did that late in the program. I started out trying stuff others had done but later I wanted to see just how much the tinkering really improved my gun. Darn if it isn't the ticket IN MY GUN. In my time in the NSSA, I've seen many who just go on "conventional knowledge" without a careful examination of the possible variations that could yield better results. I felt that 4in was just barely adequate at 25yds and wanted better. There are others in the NSSA whose smoothbores are shooting as good or better than mine is and I would bet they all have all spent time tinkering and testing the load to get where they are.

In no way am I saying this is for everybody, but I am saying to take the time to try stuff that seems counterintuitive. The ball roller thing would make ball prep much easier for those whose guns like the dimpled ball.

AND NO, I'm not coming to Eva to demonstrate how to shoot a naked ball in a smoothie.
Come to Nationals where I'll out shoot you :D

[MR. GADGET]

How do you KNOW it will rotate on ingnition? How do you KNOW the sprue will "bind"? You don't, it's all guessing. What is happening is obturation of the ball from ignition and any spin is random. It is a smoothbore after all unless you're doing something way against the rules. Any obturation of the ball, read "flattening" will mitigate against any rotation or "rolling" of the ball in the bore since the ball is no longer round at ignition.


Jack

It is all what works best in the gun and what the person wants to play with or shoot in general.
You have nothing to prove to him yet he feels you need to make a trip to show him what works for you and what does not..
He is the type that will fight with a wall.

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

I had to google that. You learn something every day. Thanks

[Lou Lou Lou]

Don't feed the Troll.

[Jim Brady Knap's Battery]

I used to do all that stuff till deciding on trying an experiment to determine if all that work actually did anything. Tried leaving the sprue on and no filing or dimpling. Loaded tube sprue up, dip exposed part in musket lube. Load by pulling ball, pour powder, place ball lube side with sprue toward powder and ram and shoot.

Shazam. Best groups yet, like a 1.5in group at 25yds. Point is, all these guns are different. Experiment with yours to find what works best for you.

I have to admit that I load my smoothbore ammo like you do with no files, alox, dimples, incantations etc, etc. The only thing I do differently is I load the ball sprue up. My ball measures 688.5 and is just .002 below bore. also I shoot 78 grs of 2F Goex and seat the ball with a moderate tap. Another thing is that I weigh the balls to within a couple of grains off nominal. Also use soft lead. I get no roll in the bore and have found balls in my rifle club backstop with band around them indicating them upsetting and travelling the bore like a piston. Years ago I shot a 99-4 at the 2006 Gator Skirmish and followed it with a 98-3 at the Potomac. I haven't shot any paper in a few years but am confident that when/if I do it will perform and be competitive.

[Maillemaker]

As I have said before elsewhere there is almost certainly more than one optimal, or near-optimal load per firearm.

What "chewing up" round balls does is increase the diameter from the as-cast dimension. This is fact, by the way, not a guess. You can measure it. Balls grow in diameter about .005-.01 inches. This eats up windage in the bore. In fact, when I load my balls, especially after a few shots of fouling gets in the bore, my bullets become an "air shock absorber" and if I'm not careful the ball will be partially ejected up the bore on ramming and will launch the ramrod out of the barrel!

But, unlike a "naked" bullet of the same diameter, it will still load with such a tight fit because the little nubs on the ball will deform easily, providing an interference fit on loading. Combine with the also-maleable Lee Alox coating, you end up with a very tight-fitting but still-loadable bullet (just hold onto your ramrod! :) ).

But, this is not the only way to get accurate target loads. Our best smoothbore shooter, Rod Harbin, who I have watched shoot 18 hits for 18 shots, shoots a ball that is .015" undersized to his bore.

I have never experimented with under-sized bullets. When I started shooting smoothbore I prepped my ammo the way Chuck Garvey (another great shot) did - roughening between two files and double-dipping in Alox (actually he tripple-dipped but when I do that my bullets don't load). My bone-stock Armisport 1842 (except for glass bedding the stock), using an RCBS .678 round ball, roughed and double-dipped in Lee Alox, with 70 grains 3F Goex, will shoot a ragged hole in the paper off a bench at 25 yards.

But, it is entirely possible that another load combination might produce equal results. The gun now shoots better than I can hold it so I don't bother with additional load workups now.

Steve

[PoorJack]

Jim-

I'm thinking that roughing the ball has more to do with eliminating windage than aerodynamics. I've found some of mine in the backstop with the same ring. The side of the ball where the sprue was didn't seem to matter and in no case was the sprue showing any sign of dragging on the bore. At this point, I'm thinking smoothbore accuracy (loose stock holder aside) is a function of ball dia/windage, alloy, powder type, charge weight and to some extent lube for fouling control.

As posted earlier, I think the piston analogy is pretty close to what's going on. Controlling the variables by whatever means surrounding it will determine intrinsic accuracy of a given gun.

[Maillemaker]

I'm thinking that roughing the ball has more to do with eliminating windage than aerodynamics.

I tend to agree. Especially since once dipped in Alox the balls become almost smooth again, with the waxy Alox filling in all the nooks and crannies. However, I am surprised that a ball with a sprue would fly as true as one with no sprue.

Steve

[MR. GADGET]

Exactly as I described. Ball as cast, no dimple........


If I were to think of revisiting this again, I'd find someone with the ball roller and get them to roll some to try..


Jack
I have a ball roller that is steel base dished out to hold the round balls and a plate that goes on top and it fits in a drill press.

I can roll 25 balls in about 20 to 30 seconds. They come out looking like factory balls from Hornaday or lyman. No sprew

If by chance you have a compact driĺl press I can bring the tool and you could spin some to test

I use Lyman 678 but all cast different.

[lmcmahon]

Ok, If you want to start a blank debate, take it off line.

[Twrea]

Jack
I have a ball roller that is steel base dished out to hold the round balls and a plate that goes on top and it fits in a drill press.

I can roll 25 balls in about 20 to 30 seconds. They come out looking like factory balls from Hornaday or lyman. No sprew

If by chance you have a compact driĺl press I can bring the tool and you could spin some to test

I use Lyman 678 but all cast different.


Can you post some pics of your roller?

[MR. GADGET]

Have not been able to do pic for a little time.
If you want to forward me a email address or cell I can send you pic or text them.
Text is easy.

It was an older member that made them years back.. no sure if he is still making them he said he only did them for team members. He shot on our team as pickup if I remember and offered one for me.
I may have a batch made up to sell after nationals.