1816 Question

[apstek]

Can anyone help me identify the nipple that I have on my cone in 1816? Hopefully the pictures that I’ve attached will help. It is a six sided nipple with a threaded insert. I had Hoyt reline the barrel and wish I had him address this at the time. Is it possible to weld the hole shut and rethread for the correct nipple? My concern now is the issues I’m having with ignition where the caps ignite the charge 80 percent of the time. I’m also getting a significant amount of blow back from the caps. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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[Maillemaker]

I do not believe welding is allowed on the breech.

Steve

[jonk]

I'm not sure if the rules have anything against a helicoil or similar as an insert, or about welding a boogered up nipple hole and re-drilling. Nor do I know who made the nipple. That isn't really important, what is is that you want to replace said nipple.

Does a standard nipple not thread in?

I would take a thread pitch gauge to it and figure out what size you need for the EXISTING hole before I decided to do anything drastic.

[Eggman]

A thought - is there a nice flash channel under that nipple insert gizmo? Can you run a pipe cleaner into the breach? Would freshening the flash channel wih a 1/16 drill bit cure things?

[apstek]

It’s pretty wide open when you take the nipple and insert thing. The insert recently came loose and it was suggested that I use red Loctite on the insert, which I did. I should have checked the threads then to see if the were original or if it had been redone.

[Eggman]

This is certainly a unique connundrum. Based on your apprasal it appears obvious that your ignition problems are due to the insert - the insert is blocking the flash channel. A solution might be to drill out the bottom of the insert so your flash has somewhere to go.
Of course we're all wondering what the recess looked like before the insert was put in there. The insert was designed to take a certain nipple. Was the barrel originally set up for a big old musket nipple. If so, and there's still some decent threads, you can probably get one off the market somewhere.
Getting the insert back out is no problem. The Loctite will run for cover if you hit it with a torch.
I'd like to see someone with shop skills like Jonk jump back in on this.

[apstek]

Maybe I didn’t explain well enough. As far as I can tell, the insert does not obstruct the hole. It is wide open when you take only the nipple off. I know my pictures are rough but was the insert added because the main threads in the barrel are weak (ie. some sort of helicopter)? Or is it possible the prior owner just wanted that style of nipple? I will have it at Nationals if anyone wants to look at it in person.

[jonk]

In as far as I'm still not sure what the issue is, let me ask it this way:

When the gun isn't going off and you are getting blowback, is it:
-Blowback from the cap
-Blowback when the gun DOES go off?
-When it misfires does the cap snap reliably?

In short, it may or may not be a nipple/flash channel issue. It could be a weak spring causing poor ignition, and poor sealing of the hammer to the cap and cone.

But let's run with the nipple idea some more.

If the flash channel under the insert is clear, and accepting that the nipple does or will need replacing, I would again suggest figuring out first if you have a standard size nipple for a US arm. Wherever this nipple came from, it may be as simple as replacing it with an off the shelf 8X32 thread musket nipple. Or, depending on the size of the thread on the interior of the insert, whatever other thread size may be appropriate. IF NEEDED, you could have the insert replaced with another of the proper size; any gunsmith or decent machinist could drill out the hole, re-thread, and insert a heli coil or similar into the hole, and then you put your musket nipple in that.

Now, if the gun still misfires or offers a lot of back pressure and blowback, I would suggest that it is a weak spring or a hammer/cone misalignment.

Our team commander (and MW regional commander) Eric Schuessler is a gunsmith and machinist. If you bring it by Sherman's Bodyguard camp I'm sure he could give a good opinion on the issue. I'm no machinist but have tuned some locks, bedded guns, re-done sights, etc., so do have some skills, and if he isn't around I could probably at least point you in the direction of what is wrong. Eric could fix it. If you want his contact info you can shoot me a private message, too.

[apstek]

Let me just say this, you guys are awesome!

The blow back occurs upon successful ignition of the powder charge. When it misfires, the cap does snap properly. I also want to point out that I am getting some hang fires as well. I’ve tried different caps which has yielded no change.

[apstek]

I pulled the nipple and insert and took a few pictures. I pulled the nipple off of my 1855 just to see if it would fit. It will require a larger nipple. Does anyone know if the 1816 nipple is significantly bigger than that from an original1855?

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[apstek]

A couple more pics of the nipple and insert.
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[Eggman]

Well Apsek let me wander out on the pond for a bit and offer a couple of observations (speculations). That nipple you displayed looks a lot like the puny old 8X32. I'm wondering if the breach hole might welcome the more masculine 20X18 (see photo). That translates to a 5/16" hole. Could you not tap the hole for this bigger nipple (maybe a bit of fleshing out too)? I can sell you this more manly nipple if you trek that direction.
Jonk you may want to comment again. I apologize to all you skilled machine guys out there.

[gemmer]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but how was that small raised section of the breech directly below the nipple(where it seats) created? Always wondered about that.