Need help identifying a manufacturer's mark

[bobanderson]

A friend/teammate has acquired an old Zouave in really nice condition. Before he tries to compete with it, he wants to know if it is an approved arm.

6861686268636864

Does anyone recognize the full draw bow and arrow manufacturer's mark? John Holland thought it might be from Navy Arms or Dixie Gun Works, but emails to both have come up with nothing usable so far.

The engraving on the patch box looks like something done by a prior owner.

[geezmo]

Bob,

This was discussed here once before, back in 2009. Under Small Arms in the search block, type in - Help me identify a Zouave -. When the page comes up I think it's the 5th post down. Pay attention to RaiderANV's comment at the bottom. Apparently you can get a SAC card for it.

Some years ago I had a Zoli marked Zouave with a bow and arrow symbol. If memory serves me right the symbol was more elaborate with double lines for the bow and more detail to the arrow and it's fletching. The arrow might have been pointing toward the muzzle but not sure.

Good luck,
Barry Selzner

[RaiderANV]

Ut Oh......someone mentioned my name. :(

The Bow & Arrow marking is found on a lot of the early Zoli's with no rhyme or reason to it. I had serial number 744 made in 1963 that didn't have it and I've seen two other guns a 100 or so serial numbered on either side of mine that did. None had a distributors name like Dixie, Navy Arms, Ranson, Hy-Hunter, Sears or a zillion others.

[geezmo]

But Pat, you were mentioned in a good way. https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/images/icons/icon7.png

[Eggman]

Ut Oh......someone mentioned my name. :(

The Bow & Arrow marking is found on a lot of the early Zoli's with no rhyme or reason to it. I had serial number 744 made in 1963 that didn't have it and I've seen two other guns a 100 or so serial numbered on either side of mine that did. None had a distributors name like Dixie, Navy Arms, Ranson, Hy-Hunter, Sears or a zillion others.
I spoke to Antonio Zukkini at Zoli about it. The bow and arrow symbol was intended to serve the same purpose as the "This side Toward Enemy" warning on our claymore mines. Apparently the machinist in charge of stamping dies somehow turned it upside down.

[bobanderson]

I took the rifle apart this morning looking for other marks.

First off, there's a better picture of the "bow and arrow".

6924

I also found the word "SILE" stamped into the barrel channel. Interestingly enough,
EVERY part of this gun, wood and metal, is stamped with the number 64 even though the serial number ends with 94.

I also took a good long look at the breach area because I'm told that older Zouaves from some makers had an issue with brazed-on bolsters that could separate during firing. This barrel has a screw in tang and no parting line forward of the bolster that could indicate it had a patent breach assembly mounted onto a barrel blank.

Someone mentioned a post from Donna Coney in 2009 about a gun with the bow and arrow mark. I'll ask her about that this weekend at our Maybee skirmish.

[Chris Sweeney]

Pretty sure it's a Hy Hunter:

They are the only ones who marked their lockplates with "Remington 1863"
They all had reversed arrow
They are wonderful shooters

And no, they're not allowed - concern re: bolsters being brazed on

[Muley Gil]

Pretty sure it's a Hy Hunter:

They are the only ones who marked their lockplates with "Remington 1863"
They all had reversed arrow
They are wonderful shooters

And no, they're not allowed - concern re: bolsters being brazed on

Didn't some of them pass inspection and the bolsters were marked?

[John Holland]

There were two rifles with brazed on bolsters, that we know of. The first ones were the Remington M-1863 Rifles, aka "Zouave", imported by Hy-Hunter. The ones I have seen were also marked "Sile" in the stock channel. After the N-SSA declared them to be not allowed for use, Hy-Hunter switched to importing Remington M-1863 Rifles made by Antonio Zoli. These were also marked "Hy-Hunter" on top of the barrel. These examples, even though they are marked "Hy-Hunter", because they are made by Antonio Zoli are allowed for use in the N-SSA.

This brings us to the other Rifle with brazed bolsters, which are the early M-1841 Rifles, aka "Mississippi", made by Bernadelli. The N-SSA determined the bolsters were brazed on and rejected them. The manufacturer then switched to welding the bolsters on and stamped the bolster with a prominent "W" to indicate the bolster was welded on. The Bernadeli M-1841 Rifles with the "W" on the bolster are approved for use in the N-SSA.

These were wise wise decisions by the N-SSA because several years ago I saw a Bernadeli barrel which had a brazed on bolster and had fractured at the brazing at the back end of the bolster. This failure caused injury to the shooter by spraying hot gas in his face. Fortunately the shooter was wearing safety glasses which saved his eyes from any injury, although his face and forehead were burned.

John Holland
National Small Arms Staff Officer

[Chris Sweeney]

The serial # in the picture is about 200 lower than mine, and I was told I couldn't use mine, so I'm guessing that it's an old unapproved one

[Muley Gil]

Thanks John, I was getting the two brazed rifles confused.

Now, is it green to go and red to stop, or is it the other way around? I'm so confused these days... :D

[RaiderANV]

Red=Stop
Green=Go
Yellow=GO REALLY FAST