Smith carbine confusion

[l.cutler]

I have been looking into Smith carbines lately and am confused on one aspect. I have read that the first carbines were produced by American machine works, with those made by Mass. Arms co. coming after. I also read a source that states the earliest ones produced were of the "artillery model" with the sling swivels, but the Govt. requested they be replaced by the saddle bar and ring. Yet all of the "artillery models" I have seen have been marked Mass. Arms co. So, were the "artillery models" the earlier guns or just the earlier ones made by Mass. Arms Co. ? I know artillery model is not the correct term, just using it to differentiate.

[John Holland]

There were three manufacturers of the Smith Carbine, of which the Mass Arms versions were the first contract delivered. Thousands upon thousands of Am. Machine Works Smith Carbines were never issued, which is why they are still available in unfired condition.

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

I just read that the State of Massachusetts sent back some of theirs to get modified to get the side sling bar locally. The first group, 500, came back to them having both sling bar and sling swivels.

[l.cutler]

Thanks, that is a big help. So I guess mine, a Mass. Arms in the 6700 serial number range, have to check the exact number, is a fairly early one. It is the "artillery" configuration.

[Kevin Tinny]

Hello:

Somewhere on our N-SSA (this) Forum is commentary that there are effectively three groups of Smith Carbines, each with serial numbers beginning with "1".
So, there could be as many as three Smiths with the same number.

I have seen at least one instance where a reputable auction house mis-provenanced a Smith as having been issued during the war because it seemingly was unaware of serial number duplication. Rather unlikely that the carbine, supposedly issued per records, survived years of field use with no wear/blemishes.

Researchers often refer to serial number records. As I understand such records, they are Federal "issuance" records with lots of gaps, not manufacturer production records.

As shared above, if one is in almost mint condition, it was probably never issued/used during the war.

Searching our Forum for Smith Carbine will provide you with more perspective.

All the best,
Kevin Tinny