.54 Burnside Cartridge Information

[762x51]

I have spent quite a bit of time trying to find an original dimensional drawing of the .54 caliber Burnside Carbine cartridge.
Does anyone have the drawing or know where I can find it?

Thanks,
Orin

[bobanderson]

I have a book that shows dimensional drawings of all of the Civil War carbines and their ammunition. Unfortunately, it's loaned out right now and I can't confirm what it has on the Burnside. I'll have it back in about 2 weeks.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Breech-Loading-Carbines-of-the-United-States-Civil-War-Period-by-Pitman/352297623832?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.M BE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49917%26meid%3D153cbf323bdf4b7 7ba89e9c5e3e41c09%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D 5%26sd%3D352297680685%26itm%3D352297623832&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

Take a look at the photo of Hall's Carbine in the listing to see if that type of drawing will work for you.

[762x51]

Hi Bob,

I found a copy of the book on Amazon for $23 and ordered it last night. I've also found a PDF file copy of "Metallic Cartridges Manufactured and Tested At The Frankford Arsenal, Philadelphia, PA" published in 1873 that can be downloaded here http://www.368thfightergroup.com/368-library-firearms.html along with some other interesting manuals.

I'm trying to find a good, non dug, Burnside cartridge to reverse engineer. The brass cases sold by Lodgewood and S&S are made too long and will require machining to get the dimensions right. Not sure why they were made so long as the Burnside's breech block will adjust for cases that are too short or long. It looks like the dimension of the ring behind the "grease" bulge is where the problem may really be.

Orin

[bobanderson]

This might be off topic a bit, but didn't I hear that someone had modified a Burnside breech block to shoot Smith carbine ammo?

Would that be legal to use in the N-SSA?

[Lou Lou Lou]

Bob Year ago they approved the Galleger mod to use Smith cases. Could happen
o

[Hal]

I'm using bullets sized to .556 in my Burnside and I think they are too small, but that is all that will fit in the case. Wish I could measure a 3 groove slug, but that's another subject. My original Smith uses a .518 bullet. While I've never tried, I suspect the Smith bullet would all but fall down the barrel of a Burnside. Are you gonna modify the Smith case or re-line the barrel, or.....?

[762x51]

There is another thread discussing this problem here:

https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/16856-Burnside-case-manufacturers?p=70405#post70405

mgmradio found the same problem that I've found.

Orin

[ms3635v]

I just measured an original Burnside bullet in my collection and the diameter is .560".

[edrutecki]

The tubes on the left in each picture were bought at The Gator Den probably like 10 years ago. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe a guy named Bob Seng had something to do with them. The tubes pictured on the right are the usual suttler types that are normally found.

Unfortunately, I am a really lousy photographer! If anyone needs any other pictures, please let me know, I will do my best to try and take something remotely viewable.

[ms3635v]

A team mate has been shooting a Burnside for many years. He tried both the brass and white nylon/plastic cases, and discovered the white nylon/plastic cases worked the best. In addition, he discovered that a.560” round ball shoots better than the bullet.

[edrutecki]

http://www.civilwarguns.com/9607.html

Lots of good information here!

[762x51]

@edrutecki (https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/member.php/262-edrutecki)

Thanks for posting the photos of the 2 different cases.
The one on the left looks to be as close as you can get to an original.

[edrutecki]

@edrutecki (https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/member.php/262-edrutecki)

Thanks for posting the photos of the 2 different cases.
The one on the left looks to be as close as you can get to an original.


It looks like Lodgewood is still selling those cases. They bought out the Gator Den stock when Nick decided to retire.

There is a guy on Gunbroker selling Burnside bullets with a dished base that sure look like they came from an original mold.

Those two items would probably give you a fairly decent period "kind of correct" cartridge without spending a super ton of money.

[mgmradio]

I purchased both the flat and dished base Burnside bullets from the guy on Gunbrokers. Neither one would fit in an original Burnside. They are to long.

[Carolina Reb]

I haven't seen the length problem, but had trouble with the first batch of the new cases sticking in the clamber due to the bases being slightly oversize. This happened with a 4th model, without the guide screw. I reworked them and gave one back to Lodgewood. The second run fit fine. I've got a pile of the old flat base cases that date from the early 1980s. They work OK as is, and work better if you reshape the flat base to be more like an original. They will mess up the platinum flash channel liner if you don't fix the bases. The major problem with them is that the sealing ring is in the wrong place. With light loads they work, but anything over about 30 grains blows out the case mouth.

[ewmail15]

Orin, I stumbled upon an int'l website this past week while searching for all things Merrill (I'm an 1863 carbine owner). Didn't have my Merrill info, but I was able to download seven or eight zip files with loads of images and links and referential/patent-related materials. If interested, message me with your email and I'll send it your way. Hope it can help. I also have individual zips of Ballard, Gallager (sp?), Joslyn, Maynard, Starr and Warner, with a carbines combined zip for Ball, Palmer, Sharps & Hankin, Triplett, Wesson. The French website is tircollection.com. Carbine is translated to carabine, and rifle to fusil, if you want to narrow the search.

[Gary Vikar]

The flat bottom Burnside case was made by Bill Norse. Bill from the early 80 to the late 90's was the only person making them. All the maynard, smith, gallanger and Burnside where made on a screw machine in Grand Rapids. So How do I know, because use to haul the brass in the national in my van. Glad I wasn't stopped my the weight masters. Bill moved to Florida and I lost touch with him. It had gotten to the point the cases couldn't be made a reasonable as brass became to expensive and he called it quits. Also back in the 80 someone was making aluminum ones formed the same way as the originals. I have one some where in my reload box.