Rifle for a newby

[Obi2winky]

Hello,

I'm a new guy who saw one skirmish and got interested. I've been looking for a used 1 Gen Parker Hale 2-band Enfield but haven't found any. So I'm thinking I have to get more "modern" reproductions. I was advised to shoulder an Enfield before I went for it. Springfield stocks do feel more natural but I don't mind the Enfields either. But I'm not fixated on Enfields either. If I find a good afforadable 2 band length rifle that'll get me set up for a while, I'm ok with that. In terms of repro brans I've seen Chiappa, Euroarm, and Pedersoli. Does it matter which maker I choose? The experienced guys said that I would eventually need to work up the rifle (bedding, trigger job, etc.) if I really get competitive, so I figured it wouldn't ultimately matter which maker I chose from. Is that false reasoning? I do want to consider availability of parts in case I break something though.

Btw,

any advice appreciated!

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

Starting over again I would get any James River made rifle. They can go for $600 to $850 used. They have hoyt rifling and are the best for the anyones money. Going cheap cheap by a used Zoli Zouave for $300 to $450. You will see these next week at the Nationals.

[geezmo]

Have you shot any of these firearms yet? Have you found a team yet? Even if you're not a team member yet you might be able to link up with a team nearby and, if they hold any informal shooting sessions, you can try out several different types. If you do join a team they might be able to provide you a "loaner" for a short period of time. If you have time to shop around you will be surprised by the bargains you might find. Don't just run out and buy something, you might be sorry.

Where do you live? Has anybody you met at the skirmish you attended offered to help?

Good luck,
Barry S.

[Maillemaker]

Today, there are two main commercial manufacturers of reproduction Civil War era long-arms: Pedersoli and Armisport/Chiappa.

Euroarms was bought out by Pedersoli and the lines re-tooled. Generally, replacement parts can be had or other parts can be made to fit with some work.

When I got started shooting black powder, before I even discovered the N-SSA, I went on gunbroker and bought a Euroarms P1853, sight unseen except from online pictures. Turns out, it was a dog. When I finally found bullets that would fit it, it turned out to have a .584" diameter bore (they should be .577 or so). Even with bullets that fit well, the gun never shot worth a darn. I ended up buying a new barrel from Whitacre. Now it is a tack driver, but an expensive ugly duckling of a tack driver.

Pedersoli and Armisport have made changes to their tooling so that their Enfields look more like Civil War-era Type III Enfields. When Parker Hale first started making reproductions, they used Royal Armoury Tooling, which was for Type IV Enfields, which post-date the Civil War. So my Euroarms P53 has incorrect Baddeley barrel bands instead of Palmer bands, for example. It also had round-eared lock washers (I have replaced with square) and incorrect sling hardware. So, if these details matter to you, the modern reproduction Enfields are better in terms of historical accuracy.

If I had to do it all over again, I would rather find someone locally in the N-SSA who would let me "try before you buy", and see the gun shoot off a bench with a known good skirmish load. If one was not known, then I would do a workup to see if the gun was capable of shooting adequately. It really does suck to buy a gun and then find out that no matter what load you try you can't get a decent group out of it.

I've had 3 Pedersoli guns, A P53, P58, and a Sharps 1859. I traded the P53 to get the Sharps. I have not been overly impressed with their accuracy. Now "Space Cowboy" from here (capnball on YouTube) has some nice videos where he gets great accuracy out of them. But I have not with the bullets I have tried. My Sharps is decent, but still not nearly as good as my James River Armory Richmond Carbine with Hoyt barrel. Also the Sharps required the Larry Flees action job to get off more than 10 shots before the action fouled up tight.

I have a target hanging on my wall here of a clover-leaf group I shot with the P58 using an RCBS-500M bullet and 60 grains 2F, but I did not bother trying to reproduce it consistently since my Euroarms P53 with Whitacre barrel does just as well with less lead and less powder.

If you're serious about winning medals, you really need a gun that can shoot clover-leaf groups (holes touching) at 50 yards off a bench. You are way, way, way ahead of the game if you can buy one that will do that "out of the box" as soon as you buy it with a known good load. Otherwise you could spend months experimenting with bullets and loads and even then you may discover the gun just won't hold a competition-worthy group. Even if you buy new.

Steve

[Lou Lou Lou]

Obi
the next Regional will be June 2-3 at Glastonbury CT. Can you get ther before the team matches on Saturday? Did you get contact info for the 4th Virginia? If not I can supply. We are at nationals this week

[Muley Gil]

Hello,

I'm a new guy who saw one skirmish and got interested. I've been looking for a used 1 Gen Parker Hale 2-band Enfield but haven't found any. So I'm thinking I have to get more "modern" reproductions. I was advised to shoulder an Enfield before I went for it. Springfield stocks do feel more natural but I don't mind the Enfields either. But I'm not fixated on Enfields either. If I find a good afforadable 2 band length rifle that'll get me set up for a while, I'm ok with that. In terms of repro brans I've seen Chiappa, Euroarm, and Pedersoli. Does it matter which maker I choose? The experienced guys said that I would eventually need to work up the rifle (bedding, trigger job, etc.) if I really get competitive, so I figured it wouldn't ultimately matter which maker I chose from. Is that false reasoning? I do want to consider availability of parts in case I break something though.

Btw,

any advice appreciated!

IMNSHO, I believe the Parker-Hale 1858 rifle is the most accurate store bought arm around. I started with a Zoli Zouave back in 1969 and mine would shoot 1" cloverleaves at 50 yards, off of the bench. I get the feeling I might have been real lucky.

As to the James River arms, they built two types, one for reenactors and ones with the Hoyt rifling for skirmishers.

Best of luck.

[Harry Gaul]

If you are looking to "Try before you buy" rifles, I have a number for sale on a different thread. My rifles are SAC approved. My rifles are a mix of original and repro parts. The barrels are repro's and made by Numrich Arms and Hoyt relined. They are reasonable in price but if you buy from me, you try before you buy. Honestly, you buy from me and if you do not like it, you can return it. We can talk about the length of return policy when we meet. I will bump to the top my list of firearms for sale at this Spring Nationals. I hope to be at the Fort on Thursday night at my camp site. I attend Middle Atlantic Regionals on a regular basis which is another opportunity to meet and greet. If you are interested in seeing any of my firearms, please contact me before Thursday. If you want to see anything, you must contact me. No contact then I will not pack the firearm. Thanks in advance.

True Blue and Diamond hard,
Harry
3rd US
Middle Atlantic Regional Inspector/recruiter/mentor.
3626v

[Obi2winky]

Thank you so much for all the replies guys. For what it looks like, I'm getting two points.
a) Buying used from a veteran is probably the way to go. Proven rifles for a decent price with advice for worked out loads.
b) Best to get to the Nationals to see it for myself and possibly try it.

Unfortunately I am traveling for business during Spring Nationals but I'm planning to make a serious effort to get to the Fall Nationals. Perhaps the best thing is for me to be patient until then?

Lou, I return from my business trip on June 2nd so I unfortunately won't be able to get there before the skirmish. But I'm hoping to get there for sunday. And I did get some contacts with 4th Virginia. Very nice guys! If I make it, see you there!

[Obi2winky]

James River Arms as the guys who make the Rockies M14s? I didn’t know they did muzzleloaders! I looked around their website but couldn’t find any info on civil war rifle products. Is there another website besides Jamesriverarmory.com?


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[RaiderANV]

Mark started with Civil War arms. When his parts supper couldn't supply he branched into everything WW I & II. He really takes his guns and craft to heart. Thinking you would only need to post on here you want one and offers will be made. His Whitneyville is a great skirmish arm!

[Muley Gil]

James River Arms as the guys who make the Rockies M14s? I didn’t know they did muzzleloaders! I looked around their website but couldn’t find any info on civil war rifle products. Is there another website besides Jamesriverarmory.com?


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I believe Mark is no longer doing muzzle loaders. You might want to contact him & he may be able to tell you how to tell the difference between the skirmish muskets and the reenactor muskets.

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

There were several muskets and carbines of his for sale at the nationals. Yes he does only modern arms now. Keep looking here for sales of the used civil war ones.