Minie lube question

[XTR]

I am shortly to take possession of a new to me Parker Hale 61 Enfield Short Rile/Musketoon and I have some bullet questions. I've searched a lot and read a lot but I still have a couple of questions.

I find myself in New Hampshire, the winters here are quite different from GA and TN. :rolleyes: I'm a competitive shooter in long range rifles but that pastime ends here in the early fall and doesn't resume until late April or May, but i have found that there is a "primitive biathalon" series in the region that requires the use of a non-inline muzzle loader, thus addition of the Enfield to my collection. (Basically you snowshoe around a course and shoot steel targets at given points. Time bonuses for hits. )

I have experience casting for my C. Sharps BPCR in 45-70, so other than a mold(s) I'm all set for casting. (I use a Wagge pot and dipper for my 400gr and 535gr BPCR bullets) I'm planning to cast with an RCBS Skirmisher mold (unless someone has a better suggestion). From what I've read it has a thinner skirt shoots well and as a bonus uses less lead. I'm waiting until I get the rifle to see what the bore measures before I order the mold. (this is just what I've gathered from the WWW) I can get set up to size bullets if I need to but I'd rather get them the right size to start with.
Suggestions for or against?


Lube. For my BPCR shooting shooting either Schutzen or Swiss powder I've used SPG lube. I've currently got a supply of FFg and 1.5Fg in those. I'll use it for the time being. I don't see it mentioned anywhere in the reading I've done regarding shooting muzzle loaders with minie's. I've seen the recommendations for crisco/tallow and beeswax mixtures.

Does anyone have any suggestions/experience for a lube for temperatures in the range of 0 to 25 degrees F. (peanut oil turns solid in my garage up here) ??

[bobanderson]

Biathlon with a musket? Now THAT is definitely MANLY!

Unfortunately, you have opened up a can or worms by mentioning any one of a number of critical keywords in a BB post. In this case the word "lube" will generate all kinds of formulae that will do everything including work as a dressing for your leathers.

You don't mention the distances but a musketoon should be accurate enough out to 100 yards as long as there are not too many shots. Most of our lubes tend to get crusty real quickly in cold weather.

I'm also a BPCR silhouette shooter until I got the skirmish bug, so the short answer is measure the bore of your Enfield and get a lubrisizer die from S&S Firearms that will true up and lube your minies to about 1 to 2 thousandths under bore size. Go ahead and use the SPG, which is not necessarily the best but is good enough for cold weather and short shot strings. If you get serious about musket shooting (HINT - like joining N-SSA) you'll quickly learn that there are plenty of recipes which are cheaper and better. I use a home-made recipe that was good in my BPCR guns out to 1000 yards and worked just as well in winter and summer. Once you feel the need to improve on the SPG, as MANY do, send me a PM and I'll give you my recipe. I mix my lube on a stove and cast it into sticks that load easily into my Lyman Lubrisizer. For the price of postage, I might even be willing to sample you a stick to try.

You also didn't mention your choice of bullet, but for a beginner at short distance, look at Lyman 575494. That's a mild recoiling light minie that will fly true out to 50 yards for certain and possibly as far as 100 with a good job of casting and sizing. Parker Hales have a .577 bore, so look at sizing to .575 or .576. If the mould drops them at .575, you can dip lube instead of sizing, but I like trueing up the skirts in a sizer die.

Welcome to a very addictive black powder shooting sport.

[MR. GADGET]

I have had good luck with the RCBS big 500 bullet.

Few things having played with guns, snowshoeing, cold weather and movement.......

You will like a large full bullet... Like the RCBS 500 or Lyman OS even a trashcan.
They will be easier to load, handle and deal with in the cold. Your activity level will also make holding small things hard to handle and control....

Lube. No store lube will work for you. Too many variations and variables to take in.
You could.be dealing with dry cold, damp cold, snow and to. Likes all that can change a lube anx how it works very fast.
My thought is to used the normal EVOO and pure beeswax. Set the oil out In the cold and see what it does, pendng the type it may be very thick. Then start adding beeswax little at a time and place out in the weather. You will want it hard enough to stick but not be sticky. I would chip off wax and go by weight so you can make the same mix again when you find what works... It will talk a few tries on the lube to get something to work good.
For starters my warm lube is about 70/30 cold, 50/50 warm, and about 40/60 hot. EVOO/beeswax.

Just a few thoughts from my note book. BTW I shoot Goex FF 50 grn with that load.

[Hal]

When you say RCBS Skirmisher Mold, I assume you mean the Hodgdon semi-wadcutter? I'm not sure of the twist in the musketoon, but I know the Enfield two band has a much tighter twist than the P-53. My wife has a Pedersoli two band Enfield and I could not get the Hodgdon bullet to quit key holing in it. It shoots the Lyman 575213 OS (Old Style) much better.

As for lube, I have good luck with 50/50 Beeswax and olive oil. As mentioned above, the ratio can be adjusted for temperature. 50/50 works for me, but I wouldn't be above going a little heavier on the beeswax during our hot summers. I just haven't yet. I find that this soft lube in conjunction with Swiss powder (I use 1.5F), keeps hard fouling at bay, allowing easy loading and quick and easy cleaning. Often times, the third patch comes out light grey.

[Lou Lou Lou]

No the RCBS 500M Minie mold. casts a traditional minie. Been using mine for 40 years. We have a couple of New England region members in New Hamstah.

[XTR]

As to twist, what I read says the PH Musketoon has a 1:48. (I'll check it when I get it)

Bullets. Yes, I was referring to the RCBS Hodgden that casts at 412gr or so. I'm also considering getting a Lyman 575213 OS.

As to responses. I know that if you mention anchors on a sailing site, humidity on a cigar site or lube on a bullet casting site and you get all kinds of responses. Back when I first started playing with my BPCR I saw that.

As for skirmishing, I don't have time. I'm a competitive F-TR shooter and I travel all over the US and Canada to compete, toss in a few local service rifle matches and my family demands just won't let me get anything else in. If I was going to join up I know there is a unit of Georgia Sharpshooters out there. I'd be inclined to go that way, but the geography would probably make it impossible. My family is from the GA coast. If I recall correctly there were about 5 GA Calvary units formed up. I had ancestors from my mother's side in the 1st GA cavalry (I think). It was formed from the coastal counties (Liberty in particular). From what I understand it got absorbed into the Army of the west during the TN campaign. I also had two ancestors from my father's side that were in the GA 155th infantry when it surrendered at Cumberland Gap. (yea, I have more than a passing interest)

[Maillemaker]

Was going to say what Hal said. I have a Pedersoli P58. I'm not sure about the P61, but the P58 has a 1:48 twist - much faster than standard muskets. I found that RCBS-Hogdgon bullets keyholed out of my P58. I have a target hanging on the wall here of a 5-shot clover-leaf target shot at 50 yards off a bench using the RCBS 500M and 60 grains 2F Goex. But I never took it back out to confirm this was repeatable and optimal.

I think that in general, faster twists require heavier (longer) bullets. I have also experimented with the 575213PH, which is a traditional-style minie with a shorter internal cavity to make it heavier. But it dropped at .575 and I needed .578. Next I took a Lyman (I think) minie mold and had a custom core pin cut to give it a shorter internal cavity. But I quit experimenting with it because my P53 with Whitacre barrel shoots the Moose Wilkinson perfectly. It's a lighter bullet, so it uses less lead, and it has no hollow cavity so it is dead-simple to cast. Also it's a double-cavity mold so you can really crank them out. So I gave up on the P58 and now it hangs on the wall until my daughter turns 14 in a couple of years.

I can't speak to lube in freezing temps.

Steve

[ms3635v]

I had a PH Musketoon back 30+ years ago and it shot great with a 315 grain semi-wadcutter and 40 grains of 3F. I parted ways with it only because I upgraded to an original 2nd Model Maynard.

[Curt]

Hallo!

Lube?

Ask 100 lads, get 100 opinions as to what works for them. :) :)

Am more of a "modern traditionalist," and have always used a mix of beeswax and Crisco vegetable shortening in the Minie's grease grooves and "amber' lithium grease in the hollow baser.

IMHO, the nice thing about 50/50 or 60/40 beeswax/Crisco is one can customize it for the weather. Here in Ohio, the temps can range from say 104 down to Minus 20. So, I basically have two mixes... a Summer mix where I add a little more beeswax to harden it. And a Winter where I add a little more Crisco to soften it.

Last year, I worked on substituting olive oil and lanolin in place of Crisco. But I have made three batches so far that are too rock hard so I have not yet arrived at a "base line" mix to harden or soften for the seasons.

Curt

[PapaRob]

XTR....to some "Lube" and discussions thereof take on a religious aire so be wary of zealotry on this subject....LOL

Just find basic formulas and experiment and figure out what's best for you...

[XTR]

I'll experiment with lubes and see what I can figure out.

I have another question, if you were going to patch between shots in freezing weather, what oil would you use?

[Muley Gil]

Approx how many shots do you intend to shoot? I go about 9-10 shots in 5 minutes shooting our matches-clay pigeons on a board, hanging pigeons, hanging flower pots, etc. I then brush the bore, with the carbine or rifle held upside down, letting the crud fall out of the barrel. I don't oil or run a wet patch through the barrel until I'm done shooting for the day. That is around 45-50 shots.

I also have a Parker-Hale musketoon and use .576" Minies in it.

[XTR]

Probably don't need to worry about patching it then. Thanks. Was just concerned about effectiveness of lube in the cold. All my experience is shooting BPCRs. Long range BPCR guys patch between shots (one wet and then usually 2 dry) because then can. (makes things more accurate)

One more question, took delivery of 1000 CCI #11 caps today... and they are too small for the nipple on my '61. Should I get bigger caps (#10s I assume) or just order a different nipple (cheaper option).

[Maillemaker]

#10 caps are even smaller than #11. Those are pistol caps.

Your Springfield will use musket caps. I do not recommend CCI caps for guns with right-angle fire channels, as I think your Springfield has. I use RWS Dynamite Nobel caps exclusively in competition, though I bought 100 of the new Schuetzen caps but have yet to try them out.

Steve

[Muley Gil]

#10 caps are even smaller than #11. Those are pistol caps.

Your Springfield will use musket caps. I do not recommend CCI caps for guns with right-angle fire channels, as I think your Springfield has. I use RWS Dynamite Nobel caps exclusively in competition, though I bought 100 of the new Schuetzen caps but have yet to try them out.

Steve

Number 11 caps can also be used on sporting rifles-Hawkens, Kentucky, etc not just pistols and revolvers. My Zoli Zouave from 1969 had an extra nipple on the patch box that was sized for # 11 caps. However, Steve was correct in that you need musket caps for your 1861 Springfield.

[XTR]

My '61 is a Parker Hale '61 Enfield musketoon/short rifle.

In any case, Track of the Wolf sells a nipple to fit the Parker Hale for the #11s. The new nipple is $6.99, a new shipment of caps is close to $100 with shipping and hazmat fees. I'm going to try to nipple first.