Rcbs .58 minie ball mould???

[Rob FreemanWBR]

Need help on what I hope is a quick/easy question.

Was planning to purchase an RCBS "Original Style" Mini Ball Mold (RCBS Part Number 82103), but noticed in a vendor's description that it casts a .575 projectile.

For my piece, I size my rounds to .576.

This a.m., I spoke to a rep at RCBS for the "ground truth" and was made even more confused after our extended phone conversation.

Bottom line - I want to know from fellow skirmishers who use/used this specific mould: does it cast no kidding .575 (too small for me) - OR; does it cast rounds slightly larger and suitable for my sizing needs?

Any and all help/responses are sincerely appreciated!! Many thanks in advance for your help.

[Lou Lou Lou]

I have ben using the RCBS 500M for 36 years. It does cast slightly larger and I size to .576. Years ago the team bought a bunch that were oversized directly from RCBS.
I may have 1 0r two sets of unused blocks left. I cant guarantee what they throw as they are unused. Hope this helps

[rflmskt]

Although I started out with the Lyman 575494 wadcutter, I have also used the RCBS 58-500-M as my primary musket bullet for over 30 years. I have two sets of blocks, and both cast large enough in pure lead for me to size to .576.

It is a pretty forgiving bullet, and works well in a wide range of rifling and twists, but it is heavy and eats through lead quickly.

John Dam, 5597V
1st MI Vol, Inf.

[Maillemaker]

Very few of my molds cast what they claim to cast, either in terms of weight nor size.

Steve

[Eggman]

Very few of my molds cast what they claim to cast, either in terms of weight nor size.

Steve
Alabama lead doesn't cast the same Steve. There's chitlins, and hominy, and stuff like that mixed in.

[bobanderson]

Only way to find out is to cast some, Rob. Even moulds from the same maker can differ as tools wear, etc. Even though pure lead is the recommended metal, you could add a small (1%) amount of nobler metal such as tin to cause the bullets to come out of the mould slightly larger.

I prefer to open them up as needed and size down.

BTW - Don't bother asking the RCBS engineers about it. I had a .578 Hodgdon mould that threw them out at .576 and called to see if they would replace it. I got into a heated discussion with a guy who insisted that N-SSA shooters never size their minies. The customer service rep ended up gifting me a different mould.

[Rob FreemanWBR]

Since my last post on this subject...

Recast the batch of minies with the Lyman mold and encountered the exact same problem: clefts at base of skirt - across the board. Pure soft lead, Rapine-type pot - lead was HOT. Tried all of the various pouring techniques (fast, slow, tipped, mouth-to-mouth) - no dice...

So I went forward and ordered the RCBS OS Minie. Despite being advertised as casting .585, I took a gamble thinking that it (like many moulds) would cast a touch bigger so it could be sized accordingly.

Recast the lot again (3d time now). Rounds came out beautifully after the mould got hot - success, finally! Until I went to size the lot the next day...

As hoped, the mold DID cast a touch larger, but more than just "a touch". I knew something was amiss when I ran the first round thru the lubri-sizer as there was noticeable resistance in pushing the round into the die. Pushed thru 5 test balls, everyone had the top grease ring virtually smeared (sized) off and the sizing was NOT uniform around the circumference of the round. The sizer was clearly taking more off one side of the projectile than the other... I used an RCBS lubri-sizer, with a brand new .575 die purchased from a reputable suttler.

So - not sure where to go next, or what to do???

So far I've invested $150 and 10 man hours behind a lead pot into this "science project". Hate to say that I'm "pot committed" at this point, but I do want to see where this journey takes me in finding the "perfect" OS Minie that sizes correctly to .575

Any advice/tips/courses of action? Anything at this point is greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately where I'm working this week I can't pull/post photos to the BB showing raw and sized RCBS rounds.

[PapaRob]

Rob, did you mean you got a .575 mould from RCBS? Cause your post says .585, if you did get a .585...well there's your problem, that would be like trying to push a pig through a snake. I have a couple of Rapine and Moose Old Style Moulds and they cast just slightly larger than advertised and both of them shoot well in 3 banders but not nearly as good in the 2 banders as the Hogden or "skirmisher" bullet from RCBS

[Rob FreemanWBR]

Rob, did you mean you got a .575 mould from RCBS? Cause your post says .585, if you did get a .585...well there's your problem, that would be like trying to push a pig through a snake. I have a couple of Rapine and Moose Old Style Moulds and they cast just slightly larger than advertised and both of them shoot well in 3 banders but not nearly as good in the 2 banders as the Hogden or "skirmisher" bullet from RCBS

My apologies - typo. The RCBS mould was advertised as .575.

[Lou Lou Lou]

1. What size were the recast Lyman Minies? You said they were slightly larger.

2. You want to size to .576, correct? Check the die. Is it clean? Is it the right size? Shouldn't have any problems sizing down up to .003 without deformation.

[ms3635v]

Rob,

I have an RCBS 500M mould and as others have stated, they are very accurate. Although marked .575" my mould casts at .577". I also had ordered an oversized RCBS Hodgdon mould marked .580" and they came out of the mould at .585". So, either the mould was stamped incorrectly or the quality control at RCBS is not what it use to be. Just my 2 cents.

[Rob FreemanWBR]

1. What size were the recast Lyman Minies? You said they were slightly larger.

2. You want to size to .576, correct? Check the die. Is it clean? Is it the right size? Shouldn't have any problems sizing down up to .003 without deformation.

Lou,

I didn't size any of the Lyman's since they all had bad skirts, even after casting the lot twice.

The RCBS mould was listed as .575


I want to size to .575. The die was brand new (just like the RCBS mould) clean... Hate to say "assume", but the die is stamped "575" from the vendor/suttler so I literally took it at face value.

[Rob FreemanWBR]

Since the RCBS mold is casting rounds entirely TOO big, it'll have to be returned - I'll deal with that later.


In the meantime it looks like I'll have to resort back to Lyman for an OS .58 minie. I've never been a big fan of Lee...

My current Lyman is "highly suspect" so I'm faced with buying a replacement Lyman mold in hopes that THIS one will do the trick. Yes, I know the parable about doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result...

This a.m., I found two websites that have the moulds in stock: Track of the Wolf, and Muzzle-Loaders.com. Despite being the same Model/Part Number (575-213); Track lists the mold as casting a 510 gr bullet, while the apparently same Lyman mold from Muzzle-Loader casts a 460 gr round.

Same mould listing two different bullet weights? Are there in fact Lyman moulds with same number, BUT which cast widely different weighing projectiles?

Any insight/advise on either of the two? Or any other suggestions above and beyond???

Many thanks in advance...

[YOU DON'T KNOW ?]

Rob you need to give me a call 757 8761954 GP

[geezmo]

Rob, read item description thoroughly before ordering. You're talking two different molds. The 510 grain bullet is their "New Style" minie and the 460 grain bullet is the "Old Style".

Barry S.

[geezmo]

Rob, The Old Style has the same #, 575213 but with an "OS" suffix.

[Rob FreemanWBR]

Rob you need to give me a call 757 8761954 GP

Gary - just now tried calling you.

Email me at: Robert.d.freeman@usmc.mil when available, and I'll give you another try.

[Rob FreemanWBR]

No idea why, but it seems that both the brand new RCBS mould and the 575 sizing die ARE true and working properly. Mic'd the RCBS' they were around 578 - not THAT large for reducing by only 3 thousandths...

Did a swap and confirmed that my 576 die (that I KNOW is correct) would size the supposedly "jumbo" RCBS rounds. The rounds came out, sized it as expected. Reinstalled the 575 to the lubri sizer and tested another raw RCBS and was pleasantly surprised. The round came out with smooth, even/balanced sizing all around it's circumference.

Third time is the charm - I had pulled, examined and reinserted the 575 die two times previously. Anyhow - the sizing issue is now, no more.

The Lyman mould continues to plague me. Yes I have the RCBS, but I REALLY wanted to use the Lyman OS round for this skirmish season. Spoke to a team mate who gave some pointers and tips on casting with a free plug mould - that would speed up my rate of casts. His diagnosis was that the mould plug itself was cooling off hence my issues at the base of the freshly cast rounds.

So, riding the momentum of getting the die issue resolved, and now armed with a new technique that should cast good Lyman minies - I pulled the mould handles off the RCBS & put 'em back on the Lyman. Fired up the pot and eventually sat down to give it another try via a quick "test run".

This time I took the lead's temp - 950F, via my RCBS Lead Thermometer. Using the new casting technique, things seems to go well and the rounds appeared to be better than the previous two sessions, so things were looking up. After casting 47 rounds I had to call it quits when the old ball-and-chain made some unexpected demands regarding POS Ikea furniture, but I digress...

After getting back, upon closer examination, I found that ALL 47 rounds were "rejects". They all still had "clefts" on the bottom base ring and the base ring itself was still visibly "uneven". Mic'd the base ring and found that the ring/base itself varied from .180 to .190 when measuring it on several points around the base' circumference.

The Lyman mould is new, clean - all screws snug/tight. Lead is pure, HOT, as is/was the mould. Unfortunately I still can't post photos from where I'm working today.

[Hal]

Rob,

Are you using a bottom pour furnace or ladle casting? I found that ladle casting significantly reduced my number of rejects when using the Lyman 575213 OS. A couple of weeks ago, I cast roughly 200 and I bet I didn't cull a half dozen for voids in the middle where the point of the core pin goes. Pure lead + about 1 or 2% tin and either 700 or 750 deg F by my homemade PID temperature controller.

[Rob FreemanWBR]

Rob,

Are you using a bottom pour furnace or ladle casting? I found that ladle casting significantly reduced my number of rejects when using the Lyman 575213 OS. A couple of weeks ago, I cast roughly 200 and I bet I didn't cull a half dozen for voids in the middle where the point of the core pin goes. Pure lead + about 1 or 2% tin and either 700 or 750 deg F by my homemade PID temperature controller.

Ladle casting.

Don't get any voids (ex. in the hallow base), just a "lopsided"/uneven base ring of the minie's skirt, coupled with a "cleft" in the same base ring.

Wish I could share some photos to help complete "the picture" of what I'm encountering.

[Lou Lou Lou]

There are machinists who can convert theLyman to a Captive plug mold wich will speed up production and should reduce cooling issues with the plug.

[Rob FreemanWBR]

Thx Lou - yes that is something that I'd like done sometime this year.

But not sure at this point if there is in fact something amiss with this specific mould (i.e. the uneven base ring) that needs to be remedied first...

That aside, do you/anyone out there, know of someone who's good at making/converting captured plug moulds?

[Wayne Shaw, 1985V]

Rob Contact Charlie Hann he does this work and very well.

[Rob FreemanWBR]

Rob Contact Charlie Hann he does this work and very well.

Thanks = much appreciated!