Smith carbine serial numbers

[Kevin Tinny]

Perhaps someone can please help?

While at the Oct Nationals, I listened to an apparently knowledgeable man share that there were TWO runs of Smith carbine serial numbers, one for the"first" model with the swivels, and a second block of serial numbers for the later model without swivels. AND that both blocks started with 1 and ran consecutively. It seems to me that there could be first and second models with the same serial numbers.This is probably an over simplification on my part.

The Smithsonian has 10601 with swivels with a notation of 1863 issuance to a cavalry unit, via the SLFLD ORD DEPT ISSUANCE BOOKS. Mine is 10574 without swivels. Mine is in visibly better physical appearance than 10601 and, aside from handling marks, appears unfired with pristine bore, original iron domed bottom nipple, no peening in hammer cup and all color case visible in the nipple hole bottom.

Any enlightenment including direction to historical experts will be much appreciated.

Very respectfully,
Kevin Tinny

[Jim_Burgess_2078V]

Kevin,

I cannot corroborate the information you were given at the Nationals about a parallel series of serial numbers for first and second model Smith carbines but there may be something to it. I have a first model Smith (with sling swivels) in the 107XX number range. There were actually three contractors for Smith Carbines: American Machine Works (Springfield, MA), American Arms Co., and Massachusetts Arms Co. (both in Chicopee, MA). How they divided up the serial numbers between them and for first and second models is outside my knowledge and reference material.

Jim Burgess
15th CVI

[John Holland]

OK, here we go! The very first Smith Carbines produced, and issued, were the ones made by the Mass. Arms Co. The first ones made had sling swivels only. Feedback from the field said that they were nearly impossible for the Cavalry to carry them slung across their backs. The Gov't then ordered that the sling swivels be replaced with saddle bars to allow the carbines to be slung on a snap hook and cross belt sling. There are actually a few Mass Arms Smiths in existence with both types of sling arrangements on them! These are thought to be alterations done at the factory as retro-fitting updates prior to the arms being shipped. The production of Smiths with sling swivels ceased at that point.

Jim is correct about there having been three manufacturers, and that's where things get complicated. Unlike the contractors in WW2 where blocks of serial numbers were assigned, no such thing was done in the Civil War. Serial numbers were only for factory inventory purposes, and not issuing records, which is why they weren't shipped in consecutive numbered lots. Therefore there are three sets of duplicate numbers for Smith Carbines, because each manufacturer began at #1.

The "story" Kevin heard at the Nationals is just that, a nice story but nothing else!

Burnside Carbines are a different case altogether, as they stopped their serial numbers and reset them to #1 several times.

[Kevin Tinny]

Thanks, everyone:

Very helpful and much appreciated.
Had a couple others share their extensive eperiences via text and PM with references. Great bunch of responders.

All of your information seems consistent to me.

Bruce Cobb shared that "very few of the swivel equipped version" were issued.
This explains to me why so many unshot/superb condition SWIVEL FITTED ones are around.

Mike Davenport sent me a lengthy, detailed version of John Holland's summary.

For me, it was good to know that "issuance" information within the Spfld Ord Dept books probably refers to the first, swivel equipped version. My no-swivel, later version serial number 10574 would have otherwise matched one issued to the First Alabama Cavalry USV, making it rather historic. The unfired condition of mine didn't seem reasonable for an issued one! Can be easy to jump to the wrong historical conclusion. Lessons here.

All the best. Smiles.
Kevin Tinny