First Civil war rifle purchase

[Harlan]

Greetings, I'm considering purchasing my first civil war rifle as a Christmas present to myself and I've narrowed it down to two rifles, the Enfield 1853 3 band and the CS Richmond 1862. Currently, I don't participate in any reenactments, though I really might in the future as living history has alway's been an interest of mine, so I want to keep that option open. Until then, it would primarily be for the range.

Within my price range of $850.00 USD, there are two particular companies making both of these rifles, one being Armisport, the other being Chiappa.

The problem that I'm having is that I can't decide on which one. I really do like the CS Richmond, but I did read in my research up to this point that some owners had issues when firing blanks at reenactments and had to modify their CS Richmond rifles in order to do so. Obviously, this is something I wish to avoid in the event I do start reenacting. Someone also brought up a concern with possible rust issues since there is no bluing on the CS Richmond rifles. But any rifle, blued or not can rust if you don't take care of it.

I haven't read anything band about the Enfield 1853 3 band rifles, other then they can be sharp around the edges, but that's an easy fix.

Decision's, decision's. My friend's, I don't know but I must stay with my $850.00 budget, excluding shipping cost.

[MarkTK36thIL]

You're opening a bag of worms once you get your first. I said I'd only have 2; an Enfield and a Springfield... then the 1816s started, then the Halls, 1841, Saxon, Lorenze, m1817 Common Rifle, etc.

Long story short, if you're simply shooting NSSA, I don't think rust will be a major issue. For reenacting, it's not a major issue unless you throw it in a gunsack after a rainy weekend and don't touch it for a couple months (which I've seen).

The blanks are an issue with all reproduction 1861 style rifles- it doesn't help when you're not permitted to ram the powder, so it doesn't settle near the bolster arena stay there. I've drilled out a cone which helps, but the biggest improvement came from ramming paper.

Enfields are great all war weapons. They imported a lot of them early, East and West. And even the Federals reissued captured ones as early as Jan. 1863 after Stones River.

Your budget isn't a problem. You can probably buy a nice repro for $500-$600, and then reline the barrel to make it more of a shooter. Then you can go the route of defarbing it to look more authentic.

[Maillemaker]

I have a couple of Enfields and a Richmond carbine. The Richmond Carbine came from James River Armory (no longer does civil war guns) and has a Hoyt barrel - it is a tack driver!

The Richmond has a clean-out screw on the bolster which means a right-angle fire channel. This makes it not like the weaker CCI caps. They work fine on the Enfield with the straight-in fire channel.

Nice thing about an all-white arm is that if you do get rust you just hit it with the green scotchbright scrubbie and it's gone. No bluing to be careful of.

Personally I've always been fond of Enfields.

Steve

[Harlan]

Thank you for the replies. I was searching for the Enfield rifles, I'm really liking the 2 band rifles. I think the overall length of the rifle would be perfect for me.

[Eggman]

The two band is probably a good choice, especially if you're rather small and have spindly mussels.

[PoorJack]

Coming from a former reenactor- do NOT get a 2 band if you're planning on doing infantry. 2 banders are heavily frowned upon in the ranks and the very few who shoot them are relegated to skirmisher role or front rank only. The reason being, when in the rear rank, the shorter barrel puts the muzzle fairly close to the face or the front rank guy. There's virtually no guarantee you'll always be front rank. You also cannot do a musket stack unless all guns are of equal length, bye bye 2 band.

As for shooting live, I love a 2 band. Length is about perfect and with the right ammo a real pleasure to shoot.

[Jim_Burgess_2078V]

I agree with everything said so far. 3-banders are more appropriate for re-enacting while skirmishers often prefer 2-banders as they are a little quicker to load and some consider the heavier barrels more accurate. (In the interest of full disclosure I currently skirmish and do well with a 3-bander M1861 Springfield.) Probably the best advice I can offer is to see how the stocks on these muskets fit you. The Enfields have a higher comb and not everyone finds them comfortable to sight and shoot. If you are doing living history the Enfield is good for both a Union or Confederate impression; the Richmond only works for a Confederate impression.

Jim Burgess
15th CVI

[Fred Jr]

Lots of good info here so far! Doesn't make it any easier to decide does it. I have shot both the 2band Enfield and 3 band Enfield. One of the main differences between the two is the position of the site. The rear site is father away from your eye than it is on the 3 bander. What was said about the comb is also true. The enfield has a little longer reach from the butt to the trigger than the Springfield types.

Just a little some thing else to confuse you even more. These points are only if you are going to shoot live ammo.

Good Luck,

Fred

[Harlan]

Thanks everyone. I've decided on the Enfield 3 band rifle. I found a site selling Armi Sport Enfield 3 band and I also found a site selling an Enfield 3 band from an unknown manufacture in the link below. Don't know much about them.

http://middlesexvillagetrading.com/cart/index.php?route=product/product&path=82_60&product_id=80

[Curt]

Thanks everyone. I've decided on the Enfield 3 band rifle. I found a site selling Armi Sport Enfield 3 band and I also found a site selling an Enfield 3 band from an unknown manufacture in the link below. Don't know much about them.

http://middlesexvillagetrading.com/cart/index.php?route=product/product&path=82_60&product_id=80



Hallo!

Your second choice is a controversial one- it being an Indian made model gun aka "wall hanger" and not a firearm. (Although some reenactors learned to drill out a touch-hole and shoot them with blanks (and some even with live rounds.) And several importers import them, one IIRC does the cone/nipple/touch-hole work.

I saw this late, but I would have recommended that you handle some of the Italian repro options first. As shared, the "Enfields" have a higher comb and straight butt some lads do not like.

Also the rifle has a shorter 33 inch but thicker walled barrel than does the longer rifle-musket (39 for Enfield, 40 inches for Springfield) so it is a different weight feel.

Some lads like the rifle over the rifle-musket because they can load it faster. When I skirmished with a (so-called) Enfield P1858 "Naval Rifle" I could shoot 8-9 well-aimed rounds per two minute event. With my custom-built M1855 Type II "Harpers' Ferry," I could shoot 7-8.

Curt

[Harry Gaul]

Harlan,

Before you buy, you should check the "Approved Arms" list on this website. The approved arms are checked for safety and historically accurate. It does not mean that you can not destroy the musket. It means that the musket is safe under normal shooting conditions. If you buy an "Approved Arm", you can use the musket in the NSSA and Reenacting. If you buy a non approved musket, you can not use the musket in the NSSA for safety reasons. When you decide to stop shooting, reenacting, and competing, the resale market is limited to the Reenacting community.

Best of luck in your search, and I hope to see you on the skirmish line.

True Blue and Diamond Hard,
Harry Gaul
3rd US
3626v
Middle Atlantic Regional Inspector, Recruiter, Mentor.

[Muley Gil]

IMNSHO, the best Enfield is the English made Parker-Hale. They are no longer made, but do show up for sale. Next would be the new Pedersoli. Cabela's has been known to put them on sale at Christmas time.

[PoorJack]

For what it's worth, I can second the Parker Hale quality. I have a 2 band that shoots really well with the "trash can" style bullets and it's no slouch with a conventional minie. The deciding factor in whatever you find is bore condition and make sure your bullets are sized to about .001-2 under bore size. Even with the seriously annoying high comb of an Enfield, I'd still shoot it in competition.

From a reenacting standpoint, when you talk to a reenactor, they are almost never concerned with how well a gun can shoot. You'll see ads for "defarbing" and for guns that have been "defarbed" and that's ok for somebody who's that deep into the weeds. There is a concern that defarbed guns having been mistaken for originals, but that's for another discussion. Depending on the group you get into, they may or may not be worried about defarbing guns but it's a rare group that cares about shooting live. What you need to be certain of before plunking down the cash is what are you planning for long term with the gun. For reenacting, shooting well is not a concern, if you plan to compete, you're in for a world of disappointment if it is incapable of shooting well without lots of expensive work.

[R Filbert]

The Enfields that Middlesex has arent N-SSA approved as they are India made they look nice butthey do have problems, I had one years ago as a kid and 50 grains of thee F powder blew the nipple out. If you purchase one of these inspect all threads - they are weak in the bolster area. so I would avoid firing live rounds from it, Jus My 2 cents worth be careful in you're choices .

[Jim Brady Knap's Battery]

Good advice Jim on the high comb Enfields. You can get unending arguments over how much better the Enfield is over any of the US designs, 55,61,63,Mississippi, Zouave etc, but the real factor to consider is how does the gun fit you. If you want to compete you should try them all on for size by shouldering the piece and seeing if the line of sight is naturally in font of your eye or if you have to hunt for it. Close your eyes, shoulder the piece in your natural body position. Then open your eye. If the sights aren't right there in front of your line of sight, if you have to hunt for the sight picture then you want a different model. The gun should come to you. You shouldn't have to come to the gun. Since I spot weld cheek to thumb while shooting, which gives you a constant distance from eye to sight, I cannot comfortably shoot the Brit guns unless I get my cheek way back on the butt. The English stocks are shaped that way since they didn't turn their body when in the firing position and stood full face to the enemy. Standing full face to the target will put an Enfield right in your line of sight but personally I can't shoot well holding like that. So my advice is that no matter which design trips your fancy and if being happy with it as a shooter is important then try them all on and get the style that fits you.


I agree with everything said so far. 3-banders are more appropriate for re-enacting while skirmishers often prefer 2-banders as they are a little quicker to load and some consider the heavier barrels more accurate. (In the interest of full disclosure I currently skirmish and do well with a 3-bander M1861 Springfield.) Probably the best advice I can offer is to see how the stocks on these muskets fit you. The Enfields have a higher comb and not everyone finds them comfortable to sight and shoot. If you are doing living history the Enfield is good for both a Union or Confederate impression; the Richmond only works for a Confederate impression.

Jim Burgess
15th CVI

[Harry Gaul]

Harlan,

If you have not decided on a musket, I will sell you a three band 64 Springfield with many original parts with a Numrich barrel, and stretched stock. It does not have a SAC card but I am confident that it will pass SAC muster. If it does not pass SAC, I will return your money. If you buy this musket, I will donate 10 percent to the NSSA general fund. The cost is $900 shipped. Pictures available if there is any interest.

True Blue and Diamond Hard,
Harry Gaul
3rd US
3626v

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

They both have different feels. Why not find someone close by and try both out?

[Muley Gil]

J & G Sales has the


CHIAPPA 1853 ENFIELD 3-BAND .58 CAL PERCUSSION RIFLE, 39" RIFL (http://www.jgsales.com/chiappa-1853-enfield-3-band-.58-cal-percussion-rifle,-39-rifled-bbl,-walnut-stk,-blued-p-84894.html)


for $717.

http://www.jgsales.com/muzzleloading-c-758_807.html