For Sale: The Vortex Ball Roller!

[Maillemaker]

Hi guys! I've been shooting in the N-SSA for about 7 years now, and smoothbore for 3-4. I got tired of the tedious and time-consuming work of rolling round balls between two files, so I have created a new invention for preparing round ball ammunition and I am now ready to offer it for sale. With this device you can probably prep 100 round balls in less than 10 minutes.

You can purchase using your credit card via our web site:

http://www.forth-armoury.com/vortex-ball-roller.html

Thanks for looking.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC2Yy4O-7uE


Steve

[Hal]

Do the textured surfaces have to be periodically replaced?

I gotta get into smoothbore. Looks like loads of fun.

[Maillemaker]

Hi Hal!

I did a torture test on a prototype by weighing down the drill press crank and let the device run in 20-minute cycles for 90 minutes total run time. This simulates 1000 round balls being processed.

The wooden cavity wears over time, as it is designed to, but still functions. I actually tried plastic but the problem is it polishes the ball surfaces, rubbing off the texture. Wood seems to be the best choice of material. Eventually the textured surfaces begin to lead up and they do not texture the ball as well. But I think this is a result of running the same ball for 20 minutes at a time - the ball gets very hot and begins to gall and shed lead, which then gums up the textured surfaces. If you run it in 5-second bursts as it is intended, I don't think that will ever happen. From time to time you should vacuum or dump out the lead dust that accumulates in the bottom of the ball-rolling cavity.

In normal use, I think it will last a very, very long time.

It comes with a 1-year warranty.

Steve

[Hambone]

Hey Steve,
Typically how much larger is the roundball after rolling?
John

[Maillemaker]

Hi John!

About .005" on the one I checked against a raw cast one.

Tonight I'm going to make a video that shows bulk processing and I'll take numerous measurements and get some averages.

Steve

[RaiderANV]

THIS.....is beyond neat!!

[gemmer]

I assume that given the near bore size ball that results, some sort of lube that softens fouling has to be used rather than Alox I often see referred to when shooting smoothbores. Correct?

[Mike McDaniel]

I've ordered one. Hopefully it will work with a hand drill. The round balls shown are properly stippled, look good.

[Hal]

I bet you can get a small benchtop drill press from Harbor Freight for pretty cheap.

[RaiderANV]

Or craigslist cheap

[stubshaft]

Can you put multiple balls in at the same time? or do they have to be done singly?

[Maillemaker]

I assume that given the near bore size ball that results, some sort of lube that softens fouling has to be used rather than Alox I often see referred to when shooting smoothbores. Correct?

I shoot a stock Armisport 1842. I'm using an RCBS .678 mold, casting wheel weights. I did some measurements on 12 random unprocessed balls and 12 random processed balls and the measurements are as follows:

https://i.imgur.com/1ZnCqJ7l.png

So you can see that the ball, on average, grew about .009 inches.

I then dip in Xlox (a cheaper Alox equivalent) and let it dry, and then dip again and let them dry.

In my gun, it results in a near air-tight fit going down the bore. Some people don't like this so they use a smaller ball to start with.


I've ordered one. Hopefully it will work with a hand drill. The round balls shown are properly stippled, look good.

I tried it using a hand drill and it basically does not work. It's hard to get sufficient pressure to the ball and the Rotary Head moves around too much. You really need a drill press. A cheap-o Harbor Freight will do, or find a used one on Craig's List. If you want a refund, let me know.

Steve

[Mike McDaniel]

Steve:
No need, I’ve got access to a press. But I thank you for the offer.

[Maillemaker]

Can you put multiple balls in at the same time? or do they have to be done singly?

I would not recommend putting multiple balls into the ball rolling cavity.

If you are careful, it can be done. If you position the balls at opposite sides of the cavity, sometimes they will stay away from each other while rolling around in the cavity. But if they collide, and they often do, they grind against each other, sometimes hard enough to jam the machine to a halt. So I do not recommend it.

I experimented with various "races" to place inside the cavity to hold a number of balls simultaneously, but the balls tend to polish off their texture as they rub against the race walls. The original design had like a 5" cavity with a inner race with holes for 10 balls. I'm still experimenting.

Steve

[Sharon Whipple 149th NYVI]

Steve,

Just sent you a PM

Sharon Whipple 10136V
149th NYVI

[Maillemaker]

Email sent to Sharon.

The first batch of rollers is going out on Monday.

I've got one more that will go out on Tuesday (ran out of Flat Rate envelopes).

I'm currently out of hardware for making the Rotary Heads - should be in by Thursday of next week.

Steve

[gmkmd]

Can anybody show me even a single, objective study or experiment which shows that dimpling, stippling, or pimpling your balls results in better accuracy than not doing so?

[Lou Lou Lou]

You might research golf balls as they use dimpling for a straighter flight.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Can anybody show me even a single, objective study or experiment which shows that dimpling, stippling, or pimpling your balls results in better accuracy than not doing so?

There are plenty of folks shooting naked round balls, and getting good results. Certainly, shooting a sighted smoothbore has a significant advantage over a non-sighted smoothbore, but that is not to say that you can't get a tight group with a run-of-the-mill '42 musket with just a front sight. Last spring, I had four consecutive shots at 25 yards, three within the black, two of which were within the 10-ring....with a 30" Macon the first time out with the musket. Some folks here don't even lube the balls and shoot tighter groups. Go figure?

[Maillemaker]

To be clear here, I don't make any claims about accuracy with this device or any particular way of making up your ammo. All this device does is rough up balls in a similar manner to rolling them between two files.

There are lots of different ways to get good accuracy from a firearm. Some people wrap their balls in aluminum foil. Some people shoot them as-cast.

I started roughing up my balls with a file because our team's top two smoothbore shooters did it that way. One of our guys sometimes shoots entire smoothbore team events without missing. Is it his sighted H&P or is it how he prepares his ammo? I don't know, but I figured I'd do what he was doing with the ammo! :)

To me, the main reason I filed my balls was to get the lube to stick to them. I tried lubing them with Lee Alox without filing them, and the Alox tends to flake off of the ball while being put in and out of the plastic cartridge tube, and during loading. I feel like the stippling, in conjunction with the thin barrier of Alox, results in a snug but still-loadable fit that seems to give me good accuracy. But, some people shoot with loose-fitting balls and also get good accuracy.

I just got tired of rolling the darn things between files because it was time consuming, tedious, and it made my hands hurt.

As for my own accuracy, my first and only trip to the Nationals I made it to 10th place Expert class 25-yard smoothbore. Locally, I do OK. :)

https://i.imgur.com/Yk1n9Rpl.jpg

Steve

[Kevin Tinny]

Hello, M:

Have to admire the ingenuity of the gadget. The UTUBE video is great.

I'll bite. What is that "rifle"?

Smiles,
Kevin Tinny

[Kevin Tinny]

Hi, Eggman:

Maybe you were being humorous.
Suggest you Google: " A New Look In Dimples."
My father, scratch for at least 20 years, was Dr. Nicolaides' ball tester.
Further and straighter!

Respectfully,
Kevin Tinny

[Maillemaker]

I'll bite. What is that "rifle"?


That's my near-stock Armisport 1842 smoothbore. It was glass bedded by Richard Hill and that's all that's been done to it.

Steve

[gmkmd]

First of all, I applaud this Vortex device. If you are of a mind to stipple your musket balls, this looks like an excellent and efficient way to do it.

Secondly, a musket ball is not a golf ball, and it’s stupid to compare them. For one thing, the dimples on a golf ball are perfectly and uniformly formed and distributed, while those imparted to a musket ball by tumbling them or rolling them on a bed of BB’s are quite random. But that’s besides the fact that they are vastly different with respect to the physics of their flight.

Thirdly, and to my original point, why are guys putting so much extra time and effort into such unproven preparations?

[RaiderANV]

They are by no means unproven. It really works.....

[Maillemaker]

Secondly, a musket ball is not a golf ball, and it’s stupid to compare them. For one thing, the dimples on a golf ball are perfectly and uniformly formed and distributed, while those imparted to a musket ball by tumbling them or rolling them on a bed of BB’s are quite random. But that’s besides the fact that they are vastly different with respect to the physics of their flight.

I'm skeptical of any aerodynamic benefit, personally. When I rasp my balls, either before, with files, or now, with the ball roller, I then dip them twice in Xlox lube (an alternative, much cheaper version of Lee Alox).

This pretty much fills up all the stippling on the ball. It's not "smooth" after that by any means, but it's no longer rough, either. I tried shooting rasped balls with no lube and they fouled faster and I didn't see any improvement in accuracy.

When I load my balls, they are a very close fit in my bore. So much so that often it results in an air cushion under the ball that requires effort to overcome as you drive the ramrod home. If you let go of the ramrod on a clean bore it can "bounce" your ramrod back out of the muzzle! Others on our team use an undersize ball with the same treatment though and don't have that "problem".

Anyway to me, the biggest thing the stippling does is it gives a tooth for the lube to stick to, so it doesn't peel off during handling and loading. I tried lube on smooth, as-cast balls, and it had a tendancy to flake off in patches either when being stuck into the plastic tubes during cartridge making, or during extraction in preparation for loading, or on the muzzle during loading. I figured it was not conducive to accuracy to have uneven patches of lube all over the surface of the ball.

The other thing I think the stippling does is it very slightly increases the diameter of the ball. So I get an interference fit in the bore when loading, but one that is deformable and thus still loadable.

The final thing it does is it mostly obliterates traces of the sprue. I used to use a separate tool to cut away the sprue on each ball individually before rolling with files but now with the ball roller I skip that step as the fast and repeated rolling seems to mostly squash the sprue bump left by my RCBS mold and my Lee mold. Other molds with bigger sprue remnants might need additional treatment to get rid of the sprue.


Thirdly, and to my original point, why are guys putting so much extra time and effort into such unproven preparations?

I would not call it "unproven". People have been rasping round balls between two files for years, maybe decades. For me, this method of making smoothbore ammunition for N-SSA competition works. It worked when I used two files. It works for my teammates. Now, as I have said many times in other threads, I am absolutely certain that there are many different ways to prepare ammunition for any arm that will work. Like many of you, I spend a good deal of my free time experimenting with different loads and lubes and bullets, ever searching for that "holy grail" combination for one gun or another. Except my smoothbore. 70 grains 3F Goex behind a .678 RCBS round ball filed rough and double-dipped in Alox in my glass bedded Armisport 1842 gives me ragged-hole groups off a bench at 25 yards. It's good enough that I don't bother experimenting with aluminum foil or any other treatment. I'm sure they can be made to work, but I've already got a medal-winner combination so I'm sticking with it! :)

If you've got another way to make round ball ammo that works in your gun, by all means, stick with it!

But if you're rolling your balls between two files by hand, this device is going to save you a lot of time and effort. Like I said in the video - I mostly made this thing for myself because of how much I hated the tedious drudgery of rolling the balls by hand. When I realized how great it worked, I knew others would, too!

The first batch of orders should be getting into folks hands any day now. Hopefully you'll get some other first-hand reports soon!

Steve

[Maillemaker]

All current orders are filled.

Steve

[Timmeu]

Do you have any that are ready to ship?
Thanks in advance!

[Maillemaker]

Sent out my last 2 yesterday - will be making more tomorrow.

Steve

[Timmeu]

Cool! I sent payment by paypal today!

[Maillemaker]

I've got your order!

Built up 5 more units this afternoon. Yours will go out on Monday.

Steve

[Maillemaker]

I have many on hand now - I will be bringing a batch of them to the skirmish this weekend at Nathan Bedford Forrest State Park at the Forrest's Escort skirmish.

Steve

[Harry Gaul]

I was at the range today with my H and P and shot 24 times without cleaning. Using 3f Old Elysford, 2f Goex, and 3f Goex (45 grains), I am happy with the results. If I can find them, I will be selling my two wood rasps that I was using to dimple the smoothbore round balls pre Vortex ball dimpler.

To the "doubting Thomas'" out there, it is called the Bernoulli Principle. If you go to any good Science Museum, you find a display of a beach ball suspended in mid air. Air forced up from a working fan suspends the beach ball in mid air. Air from the fan should flow equally around on all sides of the beach ball. The reason that the beach ball bounces is because the surface of the ball is not dimpled and the grooves formed by the panels causes a disruption of even flow.

For you golfers, the slice is caused by the angle of the club face striking the ball causing the golf ball to rotate to the right and then the difference in pressure between the right and the left causes the ball to slice to the right. The Hook is a slice to the left and again it is the angle of the club face striking the ball. To correct, lead more with the left leg and open the hips and follow through. P.S. keep you head down, someone else will follow the flight of the ball. Repeat as few times as you can and have a good round.

Sorry, I do not have a good excuse for poor putting.

True Blue and Diamond Hard,
Harry Gaul
3rd US
3626v

[RaiderANV]

Respectfully Eggs that is a bad choice. That name will have wives buying them with other uses intended.

[Hal]

Just ordered one, Steve. Just got my first smooth bore last week. It came with 11 balls. I shot them Sunday. 10 of them even hit the paper. No doubt this is going to require some load development.

[Maillemaker]

Hi Hal,

What kind of smoothbore did you get?

I shoot an Armisport 1842 with 70 grains 3F Goex using an RCBS .678 round ball cast from wheel weight lead, filed and double-dipped in alox (xlox).

Steve

[Hal]

I bought the Springfield 1816 Conversion that was advertised here 2-3 weeks ago. Relined original. It came with a Lyman .678 mold. I've not had time to cast any bullets for it. He had 11 in a zip lock bag with the sprues files off, but not dimpled or lubed. I loaded 5 at 45 gr of 1.5F Swiss and the other 6 at 50 gr. Put them in tubes and dipped the exposed half in 50/50 beeswax/olive oil. At 25 yards, 10 of them hit paper. 8 in the lower left quadrant. 2 in the lower right.

[Maillemaker]

Hey Hal,

Your ball roller is in the mailbox!

Steve

[Hal]

Thanks, Steve. I'm not sure when I will get to shoot it again. Maybe Sunday, but not sure. Maybe I can cast some round balls one evening this week.

[Maillemaker]

I've got plenty in stock and ready to go if you are looking for a stocking stuffer for Christmas!

Steve