WANTED: Tools for making Enfield Paper Cartridges

[Stormrider51]

Does anyone have, or can direct me to someone who has, the tools to make paper cartridges for the 1853 Enfield for sale?. I recently picked up a PH along with the leather gear and want to give making cartridges a try.
Many thanks,
John

[Artilleryman]

Does anyone have, or can direct me to someone who has, the tools to make paper cartridges for the 1853 Enfield for sale?. I recently picked up a PH along with the leather gear and want to give making cartridges a try.
Many thanks,
John

John-

Did you want to make British-style cartiridges or cartridges made in both the Union and Confederacy during the Civil War.? The domestically produced cartridges are easier to replicate than the English style cartridges.

[Stormrider51]

John-

Did you want to make British-style cartiridges or cartridges made in both the Union and Confederacy during the Civil War.? The domestically produced cartridges are easier to replicate than the English style cartridges.

Union/Confederate will do fine. If I'm not mistaken the British version requires an undersized Minie. I already have a mould and don't really want to buy another one.
Thanks!
John

[Maillemaker]

Hi John,

It's not hard to make the tools yourself. You will need a dowel rod of the appropriate size. If you cannot get one the exact size you need, you can get a slightly smaller one and then wrap it in packing tape until it is the diameter you need.

Likewise the metal templates for cutting out the paper pieces can be cut using metal snips from any hardware store and some light-weight metal. You can order small pieces of metal from onlinemetals.com. Or you can simply walk around the hardware store and find something like air conditioning duct work pieces that you can use to cut out your templates.

Here is a video I made on making 1855 style Enfield Cartridges:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzA9aXEyT-c

Here is a web page I made that contains information about US and British Enfield cartridges:

http://4thla.weebly.com/paper-cartidge-patterns-and-information.html

The British Enfield cartridge evolved through three different styles. First was the 1855 style. It is the simplest to make. It utilized a smooth-sided, hollow cavity bullet that was .568" in diameter.

In 1859 the bullet was reduced in diameter to .55". And the cartridge changed and became more complex.

In 1860 it took on its final form, becoming more complex yet.

This article by Bruce Carins gives a very good overview, but be aware that in at least one image he has the orientation of the paper on the former incorrect:

http://4thla.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/9/6/37969349/enfield_cartridges_by_bruce_carins.pdf

The Confederacy attempted for much of the war to standardize on the British Enfield style of cartridge, and finally did so near the end of the war, though the order was rescinded a week after it was given - probably because the Confederacy no longer had reliable sources of consistent paper to make them.

If you read Round Ball to Rimfire you will find numerous Confederate examples of the Enfield style of cartridge, of all three patterns. However, the Confederates did not use a plug in the base of their bullets as the British did. The original British Enfield bullets used an iron cup in the base of the bullet, but this was found to sometimes blow through the bullet and leave the rest of the bullet in the bore. Later they switched to a boxwood plug, and finally they switched to a fired clay plug.

In my video above I simulated a Confederate copy of the British 1855 style of cartridge, with no plug.

As I recall, I did not spend a lot of time trying to do a load workup for accuracy with this style of cartridge, since the N-SSA does not allow paper-patched bullets. So I was shooting service charges. Accuracy was reasonable, and the bullets clearly were and are the state-of-the-art for musket loading. They are faster and easier to load than the "package" method of the US style of cartridge, and the wax coating on the paper acts like a swab when you run it down the barrel. You can feel it "squooshing" down the barrel as it goes down, coating the barrel with wax as it goes. Like the original folks, I found the bullets made with the .55" diameter bullet much easier to reliably use than the ones with .568" diameters.


Union/Confederate will do fine. If I'm not mistaken the British version requires an undersized Minie. I already have a mould and don't really want to buy another one.

Note that you will need to have an undersized bullet to make the British Enfield style of cartridge, because the bullet is wrapped in paper and is loaded with the paper intact around it, making a paper-patched bullet. Thus the bullet+paper has to fit down the bore.

Steve

[RaiderANV]

Have you check the actual size of your bore and the bullet your mold casts John? The bore and molds can vary several thousandths either way of what it's supposed to be. You'd want a bullet .001-.002 under bore size if you want any kind of accuracy.

[Maillemaker]

I think Raider means .001"-.002" undersize.

But again, molds for Enfield Paper Cartridges need to be considerably smaller than molds for standard "Minie" balls, because they are wrapped in paper, so you have to account for the thickness of the paper added to the size of the bullet.

You see, with the British Enfield style of cartridge, the bullet is not removed from the paper cartridge. Instead, the tail is torn off the cartridge, the powder then poured down the barrel, and then the cartridge is turned upside-down and stuffed bullet-end first into the muzzle until the bullet is just inside the muzzle. Then, the rest of the paper tube is torn off against the muzzle, leaving a paper-patched bullet inside the muzzle, which is then pushed all the way down with the ramrod.

Here is a video of me shooting replica Confederate 1855 British Enfield cartridges:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoMji4yqUec

I hope some day we can use this kind of ammunition in N-SSA competition.

Steve

[RaiderANV]

Oh,,,,,and one heck of a posting! That is the most informative posting I've found to date on the topic. GREAT job Steve!!

[Eggman]

Goll PJ, he's already impossible to live with after winning a bunch of Deep South aggregates.

[RaiderANV]

Rest assured........yer still First Place in our hearts Jimmy!!

[Stormrider51]

Hi John,

It's not hard to make the tools yourself. You will need a dowel rod of the appropriate size. If you cannot get one the exact size you need, you can get a slightly smaller one and then wrap it in packing tape until it is the diameter you need.

Likewise the metal templates for cutting out the paper pieces can be cut using metal snips from any hardware store and some light-weight metal. You can order small pieces of metal from onlinemetals.com. Or you can simply walk around the hardware store and find something like air conditioning duct work pieces that you can use to cut out your templates.

Here is a video I made on making 1855 style Enfield Cartridges:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzA9aXEyT-c

Here is a web page I made that contains information about US and British Enfield cartridges:

http://4thla.weebly.com/paper-cartidge-patterns-and-information.html

The British Enfield cartridge evolved through three different styles. First was the 1855 style. It is the simplest to make. It utilized a smooth-sided, hollow cavity bullet that was .568" in diameter.

In 1859 the bullet was reduced in diameter to .55". And the cartridge changed and became more complex.

In 1860 it took on its final form, becoming more complex yet.

This article by Bruce Carins gives a very good overview, but be aware that in at least one image he has the orientation of the paper on the former incorrect:

http://4thla.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/9/6/37969349/enfield_cartridges_by_bruce_carins.pdf

The Confederacy attempted for much of the war to standardize on the British Enfield style of cartridge, and finally did so near the end of the war, though the order was rescinded a week after it was given - probably because the Confederacy no longer had reliable sources of consistent paper to make them.

If you read Round Ball to Rimfire you will find numerous Confederate examples of the Enfield style of cartridge, of all three patterns. However, the Confederates did not use a plug in the base of their bullets as the British did. The original British Enfield bullets used an iron cup in the base of the bullet, but this was found to sometimes blow through the bullet and leave the rest of the bullet in the bore. Later they switched to a boxwood plug, and finally they switched to a fired clay plug.

In my video above I simulated a Confederate copy of the British 1855 style of cartridge, with no plug.

As I recall, I did not spend a lot of time trying to do a load workup for accuracy with this style of cartridge, since the N-SSA does not allow paper-patched bullets. So I was shooting service charges. Accuracy was reasonable, and the bullets clearly were and are the state-of-the-art for musket loading. They are faster and easier to load than the "package" method of the US style of cartridge, and the wax coating on the paper acts like a swab when you run it down the barrel. You can feel it "squooshing" down the barrel as it goes down, coating the barrel with wax as it goes. Like the original folks, I found the bullets made with the .55" diameter bullet much easier to reliably use than the ones with .568" diameters.



Note that you will need to have an undersized bullet to make the British Enfield style of cartridge, because the bullet is wrapped in paper and is loaded with the paper intact around it, making a paper-patched bullet. Thus the bullet+paper has to fit down the bore.

Steve

Thank you Steve and everyone. I've actually been shooting black powder for more than 50 years but most of it has been done with a flintlock. This PH Enfield came with a bullet bag with dividers, a cap pouch, and a bayonet with scabbard and belt with buckle. Seeing as how I have all of that it seemed like a good idea to try paper cartridges.
John

[Stormrider51]

Have you check the actual size of your bore and the bullet your mold casts John? The bore and molds can vary several thousandths either way of what it's supposed to be. You'd want a bullet .001-.002 under bore size if you want any kind of accuracy.

The barrel is by Dan Whitacre and mics 0.580". The mould is a Lee and the balls mic 0.577".
John

[Maillemaker]

The barrel is by Dan Whitacre and mics 0.058". The mould is a Lee and the balls mic 0.056".

Do you mean .580 and .560?

My Euroarms P1853 has a Whitacre barrel. I size my bullets to .576 to use in it.

Steve

[Stormrider51]

Do you mean .580 and .560?

My Euroarms P1853 has a Whitacre barrel. I size my bullets to .576 to use in it.

Steve

Getting my zero's in the wrong place today. I corrected it and dug out my down-hole gauges to double check the bore as well.
John

[Maillemaker]

When shooting regular expanding ball bullets, what I do is just size bullets up .001" at a time until one doesn't fit, and then I back off by .001".

But again, this won't help you for making British Enfield paper-patched bullets - in that case your bullet must be undersized to account for the thickness of the paper patch.

Steve

[Stormrider51]

When shooting regular expanding ball bullets, what I do is just size bullets up .001" at a time until one doesn't fit, and then I back off by .001".

But again, this won't help you for making British Enfield paper-patched bullets - in that case your bullet must be undersized to account for the thickness of the paper patch.

Steve

Steve, I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean by "size bullets up". I've sized plenty down over the years when handloading but how do you size one up?
John

[george7542]

John I think is try to say is start with one size then up .001 on the sizer until you get one that will not fit

[Maillemaker]

Steve, I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean by "size bullets up". I've sized plenty down over the years when handloading but how do you size one up?

LOL, you have to use the famous "bullet stretcher"!!! :)

Jesse is right, what I was trying to say is I will size bullets in .001" increments, until I find one that doesn't fit. Then I go back to the next smallest size that did fit.

So I'll size bullets, say, in .574, .575, .576, .577, and if .577 doesn't fit, then I go back to .576.

Steve

[Stormrider51]

LOL, you have to use the famous "bullet stretcher"!!! :)

Jesse is right, what I was trying to say is I will size bullets in .001" increments, until I find one that doesn't fit. Then I go back to the next smallest size that did fit.

So I'll size bullets, say, in .574, .575, .576, .577, and if .577 doesn't fit, then I go back to .576.

Steve

Yep, I spent the day looking for a bullet stretcher. Midway, Brownells, Dixie...nada. They are at least as scarce as pieces of dowell rod turned to the correct diameter to form paper cartridges.
John

[Muley Gil]

Yep, I spent the day looking for a bullet stretcher. Midway, Brownells, Dixie...nada. They are at least as scarce as pieces of dowell rod turned to the correct diameter to form paper cartridges.
John

You were looking for the wrong tool. A bullet stretcher makes the bullet LONGER. What you need is a "bullet bumper upper". Look for the one made by Herters. :D

[Stormrider51]

I sure do appreciate all the good advice even if it is a mite confusing. Hope to be able to return the favor someday!
John

[Maillemaker]

Just so we are clear here, we are joking about the bullet stretching. :)

Steve

[Stormrider51]

Just so we are clear here, we are joking about the bullet stretching. :)

Steve

I know, Steve. Just playing along with the jokes.
John