Conversion of Harper Ferry rifle to Fayetteville

[54thvareb]

I have a Will Ellis brass mounted Harpers Ferry rifle with long range rear sight. Rear sight has a big peep hole drilled through it off center to the right side. Can this rifle be converted to a Fayetteville rifle type 1? By changing the lock cover to a high hump and adding a model 1858 two leaf sight? Is this acceptable under SAC rules? Thanks ms

[John Holland]

The N-SSA recognized Fayetteville Rifle, Type 1, does not have a patch box. It also has the 1855 H.F. Rifle short iron nose cap. If you only want the 1855/58 Rifle rear sight, then exchange rear sights and you will have a 1855 H.F. Rifle, Type 2.

John Holland
SAC

[54thvareb]

Would the SAC approve a Fayetteville rifle with a patchbox if it was historically correct? I have never seen one in person. I have seen pictures of them in Confederate arms books.

[John Holland]

SKIRMISH RULES

SECTION 14: SMALL ARMS

14.1 ACCEPTABLE SKIRMISH MATCH FIREARMS
Only original or reproductions of military firearms manufactured......in quantities of at least 100 arms each.

14.8.4 BURDEN OF PROOF, NON-STANDARD ARMS (INDIVIDUAL APPROVAL)
A competitor wishing to use an original firearm or reproduction.....or any arm on which the Small Arms Committee has no information, must submit documentation to the Small Arms Committee. That documentation must include photocopies of original Civil War-era documents or books or recognized secondary source material, such as books or articles that directly validate the exact design or configuration of the arm or component submitted. The documentation must also prove the production quantity of the arm submitted. The purpose of the documentation is to satisfy the committee that such firearms would qualify under rule 14.1. The burden of proof is on the submitting party.

[54thvareb]

To John Holland: Since the n-ssa was founded. I would believe the Fayetteville rifle has been documented completely. With 5 types of fayetteville specs sheets SAC has, none has a patchbox. In the inventory of parts sent from Harpers Ferry to Fayetteville, 98 finished patchboxes were sent along with rifle machinery. This quanity is two short of the 100 rifle issue rule. Whether they were brass or iron, or even used at the Fayetteville armory. I do not know. I thought I read the Fayetteville armory made around 200 rifles from Harpers Ferry parts. How many has a patchbox, I do not know. Thanks for the information. I assume no one is shooting a patchbox Fayetteville rifle in N-ssa competition.

[John Holland]

To Rick Soles,

You use quite a number of alias names on this forum. You have registered variously as "Quantrillsraiders", "Chapman's Battery", "54thvareb", and who knows how many other names. You joined the N-SSA in 1998 and were a member for one year. In that one year you participated in one skirmish.

Since you weren't a member of the N-SSA very long, you probably don't realize that the entire Small Arms Committee is made up of volunteers who give freely of their time for the benefit of others. The key word there is "freely", because they receive no compensation whatsoever for everything they do...myself included.

Under the assorted alias login names you have used over the past 10 years, you have asked inumerable questions of the Small Arms Committee on what can and cannot be approved. Quite a few members this Committee have spent a lot of time crafting detailed answers for you. You emailed me one time telling me you wanted to build a Mississippi Rifle, but didn't know which variant you wanted to build. I spent four solid weeks writing detailed informational emails to you answering just about every imaginable question under the sun on the dozen variants of Mississippi Rifles the N-SSA recognizes. And then, after all that, you asked me "...is there any brass on a Mississippi?"

Why do you keep hiding your identity? Why do you keep asking what can be approved by the Small Arms Committee when you have no intention of participating, etc?

Now, I will ask you once again, please explain yourself.

The last time I asked you that question you just re-registered with yet another alias.

Sincerely,
John Holland
Chairman, Small Arms Committee
Inspector General Corps
Bulletin Board Moderator

[54thvareb]

I think NSSA forum rules prohibit posting topics that do not concern "Civil War Small Arms". I do not want to be banned from the BB. I cannot get the private message part to work. If your incline to do so, send me your phone number via private message, I will call you. Rick

[Southron Sr.]

I would never recommend "converting" a Will Ellis rifle! No more are being made and sooner or later, their value will be much more than any "garden variety" repro as Will Ellis was an exceptional craftsman.

Back in the early 1970's I purchased a repro Model 1855, two band, "steel mounted" rifle from Will. How do I know it was an "original" Will Ellis rifle? I went to his home and purchased it from him!

Not only did the rifle have an original Harpers Ferry 1855 lock in it, but also an original breech on to which Will had attached one of his barrels.

The "steel mountings" (buttplate, patchbox lid, trigger guard and plate, barrel bands and nose cap) didn't rust because Will had cast them out of COIN SILVER in homemade foundry!

With that rifle, I could bust drink cans all day long at 100 yards. The rifle was exceptionally accurate.

So I would recommend that you don't change a single thing about an original Will Ellis rifle! You already have a "treasure."

[54thvareb]

Mr. Southron Sr. You make good points. I will leave it as is. Thanks Rick

[54thvareb]

Did you the write the information on the Georgia Armory rifle a few years back? Who they were issued too. I have a Tom Nixon made Georgia armory rifle. A beautiful made rifle. Thanks Rick

[54thvareb]

btt