Want to buy: Armisport 1842 barrel with breech

[Maillemaker]

Hi all,

I am looking to buy an Armisport 1842 barrel with breech.

Let me know if you have one and how much you want for it. Zip code for shipping is 35757.

Thanks,
Steve

[bobanderson]

Steve,
I bought an Armisport breech from Taylor's and Co. in Winchester, VA when I was building my Macon conversion last year. I know the barrel is available, maybe as a complete assembly. They have all of the parts, usually in stock.

[Maillemaker]

Thanks Bob.

I think I am going to go all-in and just buy a complete Armisport 1842. I will eventually need all the hardware anyway.

Steve

[Eggman]

Thanks Bob.

I think I am going to go all-in and just buy a complete Armisport 1842. I will eventually need all the hardware anyway.

Steve
Good idea Steve. It was with an off-the-shelf Armisport that I totally humiliated and embarrassed and mortified you on the 25 yd line at the last Brierfield skirmish.

[Maillemaker]

I shoot a stock Armisport! Well, besides the glass bedding, anyway.

Steve

[Eggman]

I shoot a stock Armisport! Well, besides the glass bedding, anyway.

Steve
Heh Heh Heh ---- it was that glass bedding done ya in! I mean off the shelf. Didn't even work the trigger pull.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Steve,

You might want to change this advert to a M-1840 H&P barrel because the tang of the breech-plug is a 1/4-inch longer on the M-1840 than the M-1842, so the latter's tang is too short. Apart from the gap it leaves at the stock, the location of the pilot hole for the tang screw on the M-1840 is farther back than on a M-1842, so you will probably be wanting to find an M-1840 H&P barrel or certainly an M-1840 breech-plug because it is more likely to match up with the threads of an original M-1842 barrel than a repro barrel? But that is up to you.

[Maillemaker]

Thanks Richard.

My plan at the moment is to buy a complete Armisport 1842, and use it as the basis for making an M1840 conversion. My plan is to design a new breech identical to the Armisport 1842 breech in external and internal dimensions, except for the bolster, which will be modified to have additional material on the belly to fit into the notch on the M1840 lock plate.

My hope is to leave the tang geometry alone so that it drops back into the Armisport stock without modification to the stock. If the 1/4" difference in tang length is a deal breaker for N-SSA approval then I'll have to make the tang longer and inlet the stock to accomodate. The tang screw probably cannot be moved as it has to fit with the existing Armisport trigger frame.

It's good to find out about these subtle differences between the 1840 and 1842!

Steve

[John Holland]

The reproduction ArmiSport M-1842 tang will be accepted "as-is" for your project.

[John Bly]

Steve,

You might want to change this advert to a M-1840 H&P barrel because the tang of the breech-plug is a 1/4-inch longer on the M-1840 than the M-1842, so the latter's tang is too short. Apart from the gap it leaves at the stock, the location of the pilot hole for the tang screw on the M-1840 is farther back than on a M-1842, so you will probably be wanting to find an M-1840 H&P barrel or certainly an M-1840 breech-plug because it is more likely to match up with the threads of an original M-1842 barrel than a repro barrel? But that is up to you.

I don't know where you got your information on the breechplug difference. I've got 3 original 1835/40 muskets, a Springfield Flinter, a Springfield H&P and a Nippes with the Leman percussion conversion. I compared them to a Springfield 1842 and the breechplugs are the same. The tang screw is in the same place on all of them. Perhaps you have a Harpers Ferry with an 1840's date. Harpers Ferry never made the 1835/40 musket but made the 1816 pattern right up to the 1842 production.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

I was taking some pictures of the two originals I have here to post but was unable to post them with my message. Both specimens are Springfield muskets. One is a 1842-dated Model 1840; the other a 1845-dated M-1842; and both in NRA Good to Very Good condition. I noticed that when the M-1842 barrel was placed in the M-1840 stock, the length of the breech plug did not match, and as was stated, was almost a full 1/4-inch too short of fitting well enough to align the pilot hole to accept the tang screw. When I swapped the M-1840 barrel in the M-1842 stock, I had more than 1/8 inch gap between the wood and back of the barrel. These may not be great discrepancies but if there is this much error in original parts, one can only begin to imagine the nightmares mixing original and replica parts may pose. But I was as surprised as the next guy that they weren't the same length. Who knew?

[R. McAuley 3014V]

I don't know where you got your information on the breechplug difference. I've got 3 original 1835/40 muskets, a Springfield Flinter, a Springfield H&P and a Nippes with the Leman percussion conversion. I compared them to a Springfield 1842 and the breechplugs are the same. The tang screw is in the same place on all of them. Perhaps you have a Harpers Ferry with an 1840's date. Harpers Ferry never made the 1835/40 musket but made the 1816 pattern right up to the 1842 production.

John,

Good thing you challenged me. I went back and carefully measured each of the tangs more closely, and while the M-1840 tang is slightly longer, we are only talking about 0.045-inch. I think what caused the larger discrepancy was the cutout recess in the rear of the M-1842 breech-plug for the lock screw would not allow the barrel to seat or align (and it is slightly smaller in diameter) and between that holding the barrel off for half the diameter of the lock screw plus the distance that was measured tonight would account for the error. I also checked the tang lengths on two other M-1840s and one other M-1842, and two of the M-1840s measured 2.115-inches, one measured 2.095-inches, while the two M-1842s measured 2.070 and 2.077. And while I had the breech-pieces out, I verified that the threads are the same for both models and will interchange.

[John Bly]

I didn't try swapping any barrels on mine. Externally they appear to be the same and the tangs measure the same within reason with digital calipers. The 1842 was the 1st musket manufactured at the national armories with totally interchangeable parts. The 1835/40 was close but not 100% interchangeable.

John Hall was the first this side of the Atlantic to achieve interchangeability by about 1821. His shop was a separate building on the Shenandoah river at Harper's Ferry because the Armory did not want him and his new-fangled ideas in the main armory on the Potomac river side. His ideas eventually prevailed.

[Maillemaker]

Great information guys!

Steve

[R. McAuley 3014V]

The national armories were required by Ordnance Regulations to exchange ten specimens of each model arm produced yearly by each armory, to be sent to the other national armory to insure consistency in the standards of manufacture. However, under the military superintendency of both armories, from 1841 to 1851, this practice was discontinued at Springfield Armory such that no arms were exchanged with Harpers Ferry for nearly 11 years, till in 1852, when all of a sudden Springfield Armory sent several U.S. Model arms to Harpers Ferry, produced between 1845 and 1851, to be examined. In testimony before congress, Adam Rhulman, Armory Inspector at Harpers Ferry from about 1836 to 1852, remarked of having examined these arms sent from Springfield, and said how some of the screws were so badly made, having only enough threads for one turn or less, that they only belonged in a waste bin! He pronounced the lot as the worse made guns he had ever seen in his 30+ year career.