Pedersoli has borked their Enfields.

[Maillemaker]

So it seems on the latest delivery of Pedersoli Enfields people are receiving they have discovered that Pedersoli has installed a clean-out screw in the bolster:

http://i.imgur.com/QUOTMz7.jpg

I emailed them and they responded saying:



Yes, we made the improvement of the clean-out screw in the last production
of these rifles.

Best regards,
Customer service

I wrote them back explaining that this is not an improvement, and in fact if they have changed to a 90-degree fire channel it is distinctly not an improvement.

Does the N-SSA revoke approval if the reproduction begins to deviate from the approved model after production starts?

Steve

[MR. GADGET]

They should.
It is not the same.

Touch a file to a 42 smoothbore front sight and you will have problems.....
This should be the same.

[jonk]

Not only did they change it, but it looks hideous. Doesn't even look like a civil war era clean out screw.

I don't see that it would be that hard to bring this up to spec, by filling in the hole with a permanent bolt and grinding flush, then re-bluing, but WHY would they do this? The N-SSA might not be the biggest market, but we are a decent chunk of it I'm sure, it's not like millions of people are buying these.

[RaiderANV]

Maybe you should post this on the red actors website and see what kinda fallout Pedersoli hears then. Post their phone number and email and more of us will contact them

[Michael Bodner]

Recall, the 'clean out' screw is anything but. It is how the drill out the flash channel AFTER the bolster is attached, then 'cap' it with a screw. Pedersoli must have discovered its faster/easier to braze the bolster first then drill it out. I can't say for sure if they changed the angle, however, since machining doesn't care about the angle (although its always easier to drill at 90°).

That's my thoughts...

-Mike

[Maillemaker]

Recall, the 'clean out' screw is anything but. It is how the drill out the flash channel AFTER the bolster is attached, then 'cap' it with a screw. Pedersoli must have discovered its faster/easier to braze the bolster first then drill it out. I can't say for sure if they changed the angle, however, since machining doesn't care about the angle (although its always easier to drill at 90°).

Yes, this is what I think they did, too. They figured out it was easier to drill a side channel and cap it off rather than having to drill an off-angle hole through the nipple hole.

I just got another reply from them:



We appreciate that you pay attention to all details.

NSSA re-enactors are often also shooters and when they started complainig being
difficult to clean the rifle, causing misfire during the compeititions, we had to
look for a solution.

It is an additional work that we make to have the clean out screw.

Best regards,

Customer service

My response:

Hi guys,

I've been shooting an Enfield with a custom barrel from Whitacre for 6
years now in N-SSA competition. It has the correct straight-through fire
channel into the bore, like yours used to have. I have yet to have a
misfire with it. And of course the British themselves manufactured
hundreds of thousands of them over decades.

In practice, I find it easier to clean the fire channel with a
straight-through fire channel like the Enfield as opposed to a 90-degree
channel like the 1861 Springfield. With a straight-through fire channel,
you just remove the cone/nipple and then use a pipe cleaner to clean a
single hole. With a 90-degree fire channel, you have to remove the
cleanout screw and the cone/nipple and clean 2 holes instead of 1.

But the bottom line is, your Enfield is no longer a historically correct
replica. I owned 2 of your rifles, the 1853 and 1858. I traded the 1853
for a Pedesoli 1859 Sharps Carbine. But I'll never buy another Pedersoli
Enfield with this defect. It's a real shame after all the efforts you
guys went to to make the Enfield look like a real Type III instead of the
Type IV that Euroarms copied from Parker Hale.

Steve

[R. McAuley 3014V]

If you guys are successful in getting Pedersoli to fix this problem and go back to the original vent design, see if they will also agree to produce the 14-inch butt stock like the Third Pattern had rather than the shortened butt-stock of the Fourth Pattern. Good luck.

[Maillemaker]

I have discovered that the Parker Hale Volunteer Rifle had a clean-out screw:

http://i.imgur.com/rtGwRDUl.jpg

Pedersoli just released their version of the Volunteer Rifle.

I cannot figure out of historical volunteer rifles had clean-out screws or not. I have seen some pictures that seem to indicate at least some did.

I bet you Pedersoli is trying to save costs by consolidating tooling.

Steve

[MR. GADGET]

Steve

remember your gun you are shooting is not period correct.
What after market barrel, what type sights, what twist and rifling is it.

That is not going to help your fight or work to compare when you are not shooting the same gun that they changed.

Its like calling Ford to complain about your chevy.....

It don't work.

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

Yes but .... This was a 45 caliber too and was not n-ssa approved.

[Maillemaker]

Steve

remember your gun you are shooting is not period correct.
What after market barrel, what type sights, what twist and rifling is it.

That is not going to help your fight or work to compare when you are not shooting the same gun that they changed.

Its like calling Ford to complain about your chevy.....

It don't work.

I have read this several times and I cannot figure out what you are trying to say.

The gun they changed is the N-SSA approved P1853 Enfield. Presumably they have also changed the P1858.

My suspicion is that when they released their Whitworth and Volunteer rifles, they put the cleanout screw in them. But since they probably share a breech with the Enfields, they may have decided to save on costs by using one single breech with one setup of tooling. This is speculation.

The complaint here is that they have screwed up the P1853 Enfield, and their other Enfield variants that should not have a clean-out screw.

Steve

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

Yes, If that is the problem contact your regional commanders to bring it up at the August board meeting. You and I complaining will not get it done.

[Maillemaker]

Yes, If that is the problem contact your regional commanders to bring it up at the August board meeting. You and I complaining will not get it done.

The folks that I hope people contact is Pedersoli. info@davidepedersoli.com

Let them know you want a historically-accurate reproduction Enfield.

Steve

[MR. GADGET]

My response:

Hi guys,

I've been shooting an Enfield with a custom barrel from Whitacre for 6
years now in N-SSA competition. It has the correct straight-through fire
channel into the bore, like yours used to have. I have yet to have a
misfire with it.
..........

But I'll never buy another Pedersoli
Enfield with this defect.

Steve



I have read this several times and I cannot figure out what you are trying to say.

The gun they changed is the N-SSA approved P1853 Enfield. Presumably they have also changed the P1858.

My suspicion is that when they released their Whitworth and Volunteer rifles, they put the cleanout screw in them. But since they probably share a breech with the Enfields, they may have decided to save on costs by using one single breech with one setup of tooling. This is speculation.

The complaint here is that they have screwed up the P1853 Enfield, and their other Enfield variants that should not have a clean-out screw.

Steve











It has to do with your path.

You blast them, you make claims about your custom gun that is not period to compair about there gun.

Thats it cut and dry.

Have no problem with you not liking the change.
But blasting them a d making threats about what you will or will not do is wrong and does not help things.

So my complaint is how you went about it and compair a gun that is not the same as their gun.

It does nothing for you to talk about your custom gun in relation to there gun.

[John Holland]

For those who have wondered why there has been no "Official Response" to this recent development with the Pedersoli P-53 Enfield, please be assured it has not been ignored and it is currently being looked at and discussed as to how to best move forward with this issue.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

John Holland
N-SSA Small Arms Officer

[Mike McDaniel]

For those who have wondered why there has been no "Official Response" to this recent development with the Pedersoli P-53 Enfield, please be assured it has not been ignored and it is currently being looked at and discussed as to how to best move forward with this issue.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

John Holland
N-SSA Small Arms Officer
The MLAIC Small Arms Committee is also discussing the subject, I got the ball rolling to forestall the arguments.

[Maillemaker]

It has to do with your path.

You blast them, you make claims about your custom gun that is not period to compair about there gun.

Thats it cut and dry.

Have no problem with you not liking the change.
But blasting them a d making threats about what you will or will not do is wrong and does not help things.

So my complaint is how you went about it and compair a gun that is not the same as their gun.

It does nothing for you to talk about your custom gun in relation to there gun.

This is not a discussion about my "custom gun". I'm simply pointing out that my Whitacre barrel has the historically-correct straight-through fire channel, like Enfields are supposed to have, and like the previous Pedersoli Enfields had, and there is no ignition problem with straight-through fire channels as Pedersoli has claimed.

I'm not trying to compare my "custom gun" to the Pedersoli gun. I was simply pointing out there is no ignition problem with straight-through fire channels, and in fact my experience is that right-angle fire channels are more finicky than straight-through ones, as evidenced by my experience with a Richmond Carbine with CCI caps.

But this is not a discussion nor comparison between Pedersoli guns to those other guns.

I'm not sure how you got that out of what I wrote. If I really wanted to go off on a discussion of how the Whitacre barrel is so much better than the Pedersoli gun I would have gone on about its progressive-depth rifling, and how much more accurate my Whitacre barrel seems to be compared to the Pedersoli barrel, at least with the loads I've tried so far. But I didn't mention any of those things because it's totally not my point. I'm not trying to compare a custom gun barrel to the Pedersoli barrel.

My problem with the Pedresoli change is they have, in my opinion, ruined a fine historical replica effort. The mentioning of other guns was merely to point out that there is no inherent problem with straight-through fire channels.


For those who have wondered why there has been no "Official Response" to this recent development with the Pedersoli P-53 Enfield, please be assured it has not been ignored and it is currently being looked at and discussed as to how to best move forward with this issue.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Thanks, John! I figured it was simmering on the stove. :)

Steve

[Muley Gil]

I e-mailed Pedersoli and got this response:

Dear Sirs:

It has come to my attention that your company has added a clean-out screw to your reproduction muzzleloading Enfields. This is historically incorrect.

I have been competing in the North-South Skirmish Association since 1970. I am also a re-enactor. I had been thinking of purchasing one of your Enfields, but will NOT purchase one that has the clean-out screw in the bolster. I request that you return to manufacturing your Enfields in the prior pattern, minus the clean-out screw. If you do, I will reconsider buying one of your Enfields.

Thank you,

Gil Tercenio


Dear Mr. Tercenio,

Thank you for your email.

We normally opt for solutions that guarantee the safety first and second ease the use of the rifle , of course we have to evaluate all the factors.

Somebody in the past days tried to insinuate that the clean out screw facilitates our manufacturing work. How a screw makes us save money in the overall rifle production is difficult to understand. It is an additional work, therefore it adds a cost to our manufacturing process, we were willing to take, to solve the misfire problems, often caused by the very different types of black powder used all over the world, not to mention the substitutes.

We have any problem to go back to the previous design, we want to reassure you and all NSSA shooters and re-enactors.

Best regards,

Customer service



DAVIDE PEDERSOLI & C.
Via Artigiani, 57
I-25063 GARDONE VALTROMPIA
(Brescia) Italy
ph. +39 030 8915000
fax +39 030 8911019
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/guns-for-sale-pedersoli.asp?l=en

[Muley Gil]

Does he mean "We [don't] have any problem to go back to the previous design, we want to reassure you and all NSSA shooters and re-enactors."

Tht's a good question. I'm guessing English is his 2nd (or 3rd!) language.

[Maillemaker]

I got the same response. I said, "Hopefully you are saying you will revert the Enfields back to their original design. Thanks,"

If indeed their intent was to consolidate tooling and inventory by utilizing a common breech across all Enfield-like product offerings, it would definitely be a cost savings if they decided that the Whitworth and Volunteer rifles would have the cleanout screw and thus they made the Enfields have them also. But this is speculation on my part. I don't know exactly why they made the change, I just hope they change it back.

Steve

[Hal]

Hard to say without knowing their process exactly, but while adding the screw requires some additional steps, it could still be a cost savings to them. Set-ups cost money and if they can drill that 90 degree passage with the gun still in position on a machine they use for other operations, then drilling, tapping and countersinking are only a few seconds more time. Lot's less time than an additional set up, which may be required to drill the angled passage, as originally done. Another possibility is that it may allow them to do the work on a less expensive machine, say a 3 axis versus a 5 axis. I find it hard to believe they have improved ignition by adding two 90 degree turns to the fire channel. I'm thinking they are saving money on either set-up time or the type of machine required to do the angled fire channel.

[MR. GADGET]

If indeed their intent was to consolidate tooling and inventory by utilizing a common breech across all Enfield-like product offerings, it would definitely be a cost savings if they decided that the Whitworth and Volunteer rifles would have the cleanout screw and thus they made the Enfields have them also. But this is speculation on my part. I don't know exactly why they made the change, I just hope they change it back.

Steve

Why speculation when he stated it was not a savings.

I don't see how that helps or does anything.
But like normal keep beating that drum. ...

[Curt]

Hallo!

Have we been heard?

A pretty much "form-letter" email has been arriving today. Success, progress, "we" have been heard, or just a form letter email?

Here is my reply that just arrived.:

"Dear Mr. Schmidt,

Thank you for your email.

We can reassure you, we reverted to the original design and the Enfield rifles will not feature the clean out screw, following the recommendations of N-SSA re-enactors.

You can now buy a new Pedersoli Enfield rifle in line with your living-historian and re-enactment activity.

Best regards,

Customer service"


Curt

[Eggman]

hallo!

Have we been heard?

A pretty much "form-letter" email has been arriving today. Success, progress, "we" have been heard, or just a form letter email?

Here is my reply that just arrived.:

"dear mr. Schmidt,

thank you for your email.

We can reassure you, we reverted to the original design and the enfield rifles will not feature the clean out screw, following the recommendations of n-ssa re-enactors.

You can now buy a new pedersoli enfield rifle in line with your living-historian and re-enactment activity.

Best regards,

customer service"


curt

hooahh!!!!!!!!!!!

[Maillemaker]

Woohoo! Indeed the squeaky wheel gets the oil! Or the drum beater...

Steve

[Curt]

Hallo!

Thanks to all the lads who took up arms, and thanks to Pedersoli for listening!!

Curt

[Ron The Old Reb]

thanks to Pedersoli for listening!!

​At least they listen to there customers that's more then most company's do.

[bones92]

Wonder how hard it would be to have unsold rifles with the clean-out screw sent back and retrofitted with a proper bolster. Maybe some guys won't notice or care, but it would seem that most people would want something that is at least eligible for N-SSA, whether they actually plan to shoot N-SSA or not.

[Maillemaker]

I doubt there will be any kind of "recall" - too expensive.

In theory, the incorrect breech could be unthreaded from the barrel and the correct breech threaded back on. If you could do it without marring the bluing. Otherwise you'd have to re-blue.

My advice if you are buying one through retail channels is to confirm in writing that it is the correct style before placing an order.

Steve

[John Holland]

Dixie Gun Works has recently gone through their inventory and verified that they have no Pedersoli's with clean-out screws.