Metallurgical Test of Austrian Rifle Barrel

[Don Dixon]

I am looking for a member of the association, or reader of the forum, who has the ability to perform metallurgical laboratory testing on an Austrian rifle barrel stub. I don't expect you to do it for free, although that would be nice. Since you are reading this, I know you are interested in the weapons of the Civil War era.

The barrels of the Muster (Model) 1854 family of Austro-Hungarian rifles (inaccurately referred to on this side of the pond as the "Lorenz") were manufactured from malleable iron, as were most of the muzzle loading military weapons of the period. Malleable iron provided a perfectly adequate margin of safety when black powder was used as the propellant. In the early 1860s, however, the Austrians began experimenting with gun cotton as a propellant. Having decided to use gun cotton in their issue weapons, they concluded that they needed a greater margin of safety in the barrel. Consequently, they used steel in the barrels of the Muster 1862 family of arms, which were product improved versions of the Muster 1854 weapons.

I acquired what externally appears to be a Muster 1862 infantry rifle. It is marked “Ohio” several places on the stock. Based upon my research, it was probably one of the rifles that the State of Ohio received from the Federal government as part of their militia issue in 1863. From an examination of the internals of the rifle, I suspect that I have an example of the gun runners perpetrating a fraud on the Federal government, in that it appears to be built from Muster 1854 rifle parts configured to look like a Muster 1862 rifle.

After the war, the rifle had been bored out to smoothbore and shortened by an inch for use as a shotgun. It was otherwise complete. I had Bobby Hoyt extend the barrel to the proper length, and line it. This gave me a four inch barrel stub which can be tested. Testing would resove the issue of the rifle being a parts gun configured to look like a Muster 1862 rifle, or a badly built Muster 1862 rifle.

The test results will be cited in an article for either Man at Arms or The Skirmish Line, and in a book on the Austro-Hungarian arms I am working on, if you would like to see your name, and that of your university or laboratory, in print

Your assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated. Please feel free to contact me on the forum or off-line by message.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[Jim_Burgess_2078V]

Don,
I seriously doubt the Austrians or any other European power would have sold off their most advanced weaponry. Most of the arms imported during war were older, surplus muskets and conversions. Although I cannot offer any metalurgical analysis, I'm betting you have some of the older iron.
Jim Burgess, 15th CVI

[Don Dixon]

Jim,

I also doubt that the Austrians sold the Americans -- Federal or Confederate -- any significant number of Muster 1862 rifles. I can only document two infantry rifles, and they were sold to the U.S. consul in Vienna, and used by the Federals for foreign materiel exploitation.

But, I would like to test the barrel to verify my suspicion that some of the gun runners were selling parts guns tricked up to look like the latest Muster 1862 rifles.

Regards,
Don

[GPM]

A few months ago I stumbled across a Lorenz that had been modified into a shotgun post war like so many muskets of all types. What caused a second look in this case was that it was a Muster 62, and had OHIO cartouches at the upper wrist and left stock flat.

[ken chrestman]

Not so fast;

In the battle of Balls Bluff VA October 21st 1861 the 17th Mississippians were armed with P-53's and Austrian Lorenz muskets. I had several ancestors in the 17th.


Regards;

Ken Chrestman,7147V
Tennessee

[Greg Edington]

Don,

The barrel is made of iron. The "1862" rifle muskets sold to the US and CSA during the Civil War were 1862 Pattern rifle muskets which meant they were built to look like, but were not 1862 model's. The contracts stated that the arms to be provided were to be of the latest pattern not model a distinction that US arms buyers did not catch.

Best Regards:

Greg Edington

[Don Dixon]

Greg,

Long time no.... Hope you've been well.

Your comment about the Ohio guns is pretty much what I expected, but I wanted to verify it. Where did you find the contracts, or inspection reports?

Regards,
Don

[Johan Steele]

Don or Greg whenever either of you get a book published I'm on it like a lawyer behind an ambulance. I look forward to learning more from your encyclopedic knowledge of Austrian arms.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

What is the concensus on the importation of the Bavarian Model 1858/II rifle muskets, like the one pictured here http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =147506018 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=147506018) The Podewils or Schützengewehr 1858 is also illustrated in William B. Edwards (1962) Civil War Guns, No. 9, top of page 75 (above No. 10 Austrian Lorenz) from one of the displays of foreign guns purchased by the Union in a display by the Smithson Institution. According to some sources, all but about 2700 of these .54 caliber rifle muskets were converted to breech-loading, 1865-69.

[Don Dixon]

Mr. McAuley,

I wish I could tell you about the (any) importation of the Bavarian Muster 1858 rifles. I have one, so I have a vested interest in the answer. They are really a very nice firearm. But, I haven't researched the Bavarians yet. We are renovating my house right now, and most of my firearms reference books are in storage, so I can't even look up your reference in Edwards.

Anyone else?

One interesting issue that I can comment about is the caliber of the Muster 1854 Austro-Hungarian rifles, the Muster 1858 Bavarian, and weapons from other southern German principalities. Under the South German Convention, the Austrians (1854); Wurttemberg, Baden, Hessen-Darmstadt (1856/7); Bavaria (1858), Nassau (1860) Sachsen (1861); agreed to a common caliber (13.9 mm/.547/8 inches) for their muzzle loading weapons. This would have permitted them to use each others' ammunition in the event of a conflict with the French, Prussians or Swiss. So much for the Federal Ordnance Corps' egregiously stupid assumption that the Austrian ".54 caliber" rifles could be feed American .54 caliber ammunition and be fired accurately.

Regards,
Don

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Actually, the Muster 1858 (Type I) that I have here belongs to a co-worker who asked if I could identify it, and while I was able to find some information about it, not much is available locally or via the internet. But it’s a pretty scarce rifle musket in that with Bavaria being allied to Austria that when Bavaria was defeated by the Prussians during the Austro-Prussian War, a consequence of their defeat was that virtually all of the Muster 1858/66 breechloading rifles captured (some 113,277 rifles of the 116,000 made) were destroyed.

But I did find a book online that was very helpful. It was published in 1869, and is very nicely illustrated, and as you remarked anent the assumption made by U.S. buyers during the months leading up to the American Civil War Table VII, Figure 6 illustrates the bore and rifling dimensions with the land-to-land dimension as 0.53 and the groove-to-groove as 0.55, so the 13.9-mm bore was only in a “nominal” sense that the U.S. .54-caliber elongated ball would fit but likely with some difficulty.

Table VIII features the various parts of the Model 1858 infantry rifle, while Table X (Figure 11) features an illustration of the Model 1858 infantry rifle, while Figure 1 (same table) features the Model I Klappenvisir rear sight (like on the musket I have here), while Figure 2 features the Model II shooter’s sight like is on the rifle shown in the other link. The Model II and III were the models converted to the Linder system (see Table XIII, Figures 1 &2), circa 1865-1869.

http://books.google.com/books?id=7f46AA ... 58&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=7f46AAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PR10&lpg=RA1-PR10&dq=Sch%C3%BCtzengewehr+1858&source=bl&ots=t6Hc5UaNC_&sig=BoY2_gYon6JyMmdO4bts_DfEZR4&hl=en&ei=WjtmS4yxAp6ltgf9tvGlBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CCAQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=Sch%C3%BCtzengewehr%201858&f=false)

[Fortitudine]

I was under the impression that the "model" 1858 Bavarian had a double-strapped center barrel band. Is this correct?
The link in an earlier post showed a model with a single strap center band.

[Gary Van Kauwenbergh, 101]

I got this from Bill Osborne, of Lodgewood Mfg:

"I have a lab which does my metallurgy for castings called APL in Milwaukee they do a good job and would give a very professional report. "

Hope this helps,

[Don Dixon]

Fortitudine,

I think that the arm you are thinking of is the Dresden/Sachsen (Saxon) Muster 1850 rifle, which does have the double band in the center.

Regards,
Don Dixon