Austro-Hungarian Army Weapons in the American Civil War

[dbm]

Can anyone help? Donald Dixon is researching a book on the use of Austro-Hungarian Army (k.k. Army) weapons by the Federals and Confederates in the American Civil War. After the American Springfield rifle musket and the British Enfield rifle muskets, the k.k. Army weapons were the third most widely used arms in the war, with the Federals importing more than 350,000 and the Confederates in excess of 100,000. The Federals could not have fought the war without the k.k. Army weapons through mid-1863, and the Confederates could not have fought the war in 1864-5 without them. Despite this, the arms and their use is very poorly documented in English.

For further information, see: Austro-Hungarian Army Weapons in the American Civil War
(http://researchpress.blogspot.co.uk/p/lorenz-rifle.html)
Thanks,

David

[MarkTK36thIL]

Has he reached out to David Noe and Tim Prince yet?

[Don Dixon]

I've spoken several times with David Noe at the Baltimore show, and Tim Prince and I talk regularly.

I'm now to the point in my research where many of the remaining pieces that I need to complete the puzzle of Federal and Confederate use of Austro-Hungarian Army weapons during the Civil War are in European archives; if those pieces still exist. Eley Brothers production of "Austrian" ammunition for the Confederates is one of those pieces.

Regards,
Don Dixon

[MarkTK36thIL]

Good to know Don. Are you on the Facebook Musket group? https://www.facebook.com/groups/715701585223698/

There are a couple foreign guys who can help you fill in the blanks perhaps.

[Michael Bodner]

Well, my ears perked up! Being of Hungarian decent (My grandfather was a Count: The Count of No-Account...)

My personal joke, now that I live in the South, is that 'Yes, my family fought in the Civil War - The Hungarian Civil War'.

It would be awesome to own/use a kk Army weapon. I'll be following the link, but anything that any N-SSA members already knows OR someone who has one and wants to sell it, let me know!!

-Mike

[RaiderANV]

If Don's research shows the South cut down damaged three band Lorenz musket to two banders(like we know they cut everything down) this will be the proof needed to make these two banders serviceable again for N-SSA use. I'll buy a couple of the books Don as a reward! HEY,,,,,,,you still need a Maynard Buttplate? =}

[John Holland]

PJ - Like I told you at the past National, you will have to prove 100 of them cut to the same configuration.

[Don Dixon]

By "2-band guns," I will assume that you are describing the Muster 1854 Extra Corps carbine.

Major Caleb Huse purchased at least 10 batteries of k.k. Army artillery, described repeatedly by Huse, S. Issac Campbell and Company, and in other documents in the McRae Papers as being "complete" for the Confederates. Major Mordecai, writing in his copy of the Delafield Commission report, stated that the TO&E for a k.k. Army artillery battery included, 16 Extra Corps carbines which were carried in the battery wagons for guard duty. In 1862 those carbine would have been Muster 1854s. Ergo, a minimum of 160 Extra Corps carbines purchased by the Confederates. I can't yet prove or disprove whether they made it through the blockade or not.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[John Holland]

Don, recently you and I had a great conversation about the Extra Corps Carbines. However, from my conversation last week with PJ he is referring to Confederate battlefield salvaged arms, and not the imports.

[RaiderANV]

Yes Don I refer to any proof the Great Southron Cause actually cut down at least 100 "damaged" Lorenz muskets like they did Springfields turning them into the two band versions we field now. John said proof of 100 arms is the standard for acceptance by the SAC. Was kinda wondering if yer research might have turned this lil fact up?? =}

[Don Dixon]

RaiderANV,

The Confederates did all kinds of screwy stuff with battlefield salvage. Reference the "Austrian" rifles that were made from salvaged System Lorenz barrels at Tyler, TX. They were simply looking for something that would go bang. And, there was a particular need for cavalry arms. Unfortunately, I can't help you. That they salvaged Austrian rifles that had been damged at the muzzle by shortening them would not surprize me at all. Documenting that they salvaged 100 of them to some sort of standard pattern and to John's satifaction.....???? I have enough friendly food fights with John over the wide variety of rear sights on otherwise standard Austrian arms.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[Joebrech]

Well, my ears perked up! Being of Hungarian decent (My grandfather was a Count: The Count of No-Account...)

My personal joke, now that I live in the South, is that 'Yes, my family fought in the Civil War - The Hungarian Civil War'.

It would be awesome to own/use a kk Army weapon. I'll be following the link, but anything that any N-SSA members already knows OR someone who has one and wants to sell it, let me know!!

-Mike

Bootsie,
Good shooting musket with you team this weekend, sorry I wasn't much help - glad you placed. My paternal grandparents were from Slovenia, and my Grandfather was actually in the KuK circa 1907/08. I am also tracking future KuK N-SSA developments with interest.

[Michael Bodner]

Well I'll be danged!! We're practically cousins!!

Enjoyed meeting and shooting with you too. You're welcome to shoot with us anytime!

-Mike

[gmkmd]

If you're starting a special-interest group for Hungies, count me in. My maternal great-grandparents were from Budapest.

[jonk]

With degrees in history and German, anyone who wants to pay for me to go to Europe for a few weeks or months, I'd be more than happy to... :D You know, research things from that side of the pond...

In more serious tone, I HATE translating. But if anyone knows of a German book that details the sale of these weapons to the Americas, I would be happy to read it and report back on anything about them.

I also know some folks in Austria. I can't speak for their willingness to help track anything down, but if someone could point to an exact source, they MAY be willing to pick it up and take scans.

If such sources are available in German. My hungarian is not existent, minus a few curse words learned from a great grandma....