Lubing and sizing the Sharps Christmas Tree bullet

[Maillemaker]

So is there a sizing die for the Lyman Lubrsizer that will size the Sharps Christmas Tree bullet and only lube the lube grooves, leaving the nose and tail untouched?

Steve

[jonk]

I don't know that anyone offers it off the shelf, but if you order the die in the diameter you need you can have a machinist cut a rebated hole into the punch that supports and surrounds the ring at the base in a tight fit... meaning no lube gets onto it. Or if you have a lathe, I'm sure it would be an easy job.

[marv762]

i dip mine in melted lube with a piece of brass on the nose that you hold with a piece of wire for a handle. the bullet is already glued into the tube.

[bobanderson]

I don't know that anyone offers it off the shelf, but if you order the die in the diameter you need you can have a machinist cut a rebated hole into the punch that supports and surrounds the ring at the base in a tight fit... meaning no lube gets onto it. Or if you have a lathe, I'm sure it would be an easy job.

I did just that a few years ago. The real problem is the Christmas tree bullet has 3 different diameters so passing the bullet through a straight die will wipe off lead on the bottom band or put a big glob on the smaller/upper rings. Moose makes a straight profile mould in the Dave France style that would work in a Lubrisizer. Don't know if they offer it in a ringtail version.

I'm shooting a Sharps again this year and my head is spinning will all kinds of brainstorms on this exact problem. I don't like dip lubing either.

[Maillemaker]

I have a Harbor Freight tool set that has a bunch of different sized spherical balls mounted on shafts, along with a matching punch block. I use it for making medieval armour (gauntlets).

I used them and my bench vice to drive progressively large balls into the mouth of a .45 ACP case until it was belled enough to slip over the nose of my Sharps bullet and the case mouth bottomed out on the top driving band.

I'm going to make the "easter egg dye dipper" thingy using this, and will put finished cartridges in this cartridge and then dip. This should keep the lube off of the nose.

I don't know if it really matters or not.

Steve

[Charlie Hahn]

I made a lubber sizer die that masks the nose and the ring tail and puts a ring on the bullet. That part is not a big deal to do. The issues come with what is next. You have to handle the bullet with forceps and in a nose down loading block. The tube then becomes the tool to handle as you glue it up. If the bullet is a tight fit, this becomes a juggling act. I have since found another way. I build the round up, and the last thing I do is paint the lube on the rings. I use a small electric fry pan to have a controlled melt. I take an acid brush and trim the bristles to about 3/8 inch long. This does not take any longer than any other method, and you can do this just before a shoot to the lube is fresh.

As to clean nose or lubed, it makes a big difference at 100 yards. Cold weather is the worse, the lube will not strip off, and usually you get some on one side and not the other, You get a wobble, and canard effect and you are lucky to hit the backstop. If you are a nonbeliever mix up some lube, make it a little stiff with some extra beeswax, shoot from a breech at a dot, and see what you get. It is an interesting test.

Charlie Hahn

[Fred Jr]

When I first started using Charlie Tubes I just dipped the nose of the bullet into lube. It didn't take long to see that for some reason I started getting keyholes. Started to brush on the lube just on the rings, no more key holes!

[Maillemaker]

Yeah it makes sense to me that the lube on the nose would affect accuracy.

Steve

[jonk]

I did just that a few years ago. The real problem is the Christmas tree bullet has 3 different diameters so passing the bullet through a straight die will wipe off lead on the bottom band or put a big glob on the smaller/upper rings. Moose makes a straight profile mould in the Dave France style that would work in a Lubrisizer. Don't know if they offer it in a ringtail version.

I'm shooting a Sharps again this year and my head is spinning will all kinds of brainstorms on this exact problem. I don't like dip lubing either.

It's good to hear that Moose is doing that. I never saw the need for different diameter bands. The way my mold drops, and the size I am sizing to, it doesn't have an issue though. Older rapine mold.

So far as dip lubing goes, so long as I stick with a soft lube, I have never had an issue with keyholing with lube on the nose, and our team's best carbine shooter (Ian) dip lubes and does just fine. Low 20s hit time.

Then, every gun is different....

[Hal]

We are experimenting with my wife's Starr. I got a ring tail Christmas tree mould form Moose in .557 (Already had the Moose .544 for her Sharps, but the Starr is a bit larger and needs the larger bullet). We have had a lot going on lately and have not had time to work with it. We ran across some loaded ammo for the Starr and decided to shoot it last weekend. It was the Moose .557, hair curler paper, Cream of Wheat filler and some unknown charge of Swiss 1-1/2F (Need to go see if I made any notes on it), dip lubed in 50/50 beeswax/olive oil. She was hitting all over with it from the bench and said "Here, YOU shoot it!" I sat down at the bench and fired off 3 rounds at 50 yds. She was watching with binoculars. I didn't ask, but as we went down range, I could see it in her face. Three rounds in one ragged hole.

It may have been a fluke. Granted, it was only 3 rounds, but I don't believe the dip lubing caused any lack of accuracy on those. However, I think I might fashion a dipper like mentioned above that will mask off the front of the bullet when I lube them, if for no other reason, to save lube.

[Don Dixon]

The following observations are made regarding a very specific weapon/load combination. They may not be applicable to other manufacturers' firearms and moulds, or to other loads:

Firearm: Shiloh .50 caliber Model 1863 Infantry rifle.
Bullet: NEI (its the only Sharps .50 caliber Christmas tree mould they make), unsized. 1/20 tin/lead mix. So, its somewhat hard.
Powder: 45 grs. Swiss FFFg
Lubrication: Lee Shaver's lube for black powder, cartridge, long range rifles. It contains moly, and I wouldn't it anywhere near my mouth.
Loading technique: Using hard plastic tubes, insert powder in tube. Insert base of Christmas tree bullet in tube. Swish bullet through melted lube. Let cool. Don't wipe lube off nose of bullet. Contrary to my expectations, the lube on the nose of the bullet appeared to have no effect on accuracy. I've never seen any signs of tipping/keyholing at any range I've shot it at. Off the brench at 50 yards it essentially shots one hole groups.

I made the Distinguished Breechloader Shooter badge with this weapon and load, won the breech loader aggregate, and the 99 with a bunch of X's that I shot with it a 50 yards was the high breech loader score at that range for a number of years.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[Maillemaker]

Hey Don, are you talking about the Yeck's tubes where the bullet gets stuffed into the chamber and the little rubber sleeve gets pushed down the outside of the tube and the powder follows the bullet into the chamber?

Steve

[Don Dixon]

Steve,

I'll described what I use, and my recollection of what Preston Hewitt used.

One can purchase six foot lengths of hard, clear pastic tubing. You want tube with an internal diameter that mates with the diameter of the base of your Christmas tree bullet, so that when the base of the bullet is inserted into the tubing it is held in place. Cut the tubing to a suitable length. Cap one end with a Caplug (www.caplug.com) that fits the external diameter of the tube. Preston also used a short Caplug inside the tube so that he could control the placement of the column of powder in the tube. Insert the powder and bullet and then lube the bullet. To load, point the muzzle of the rifle toward the ground, insert the bullet into the chamber, and seat it into the rifling. Rock the tube at an angle to break the base of the bullet loose from the tube, and withdraw the tube from the chamber, leaving the bullet and column of powder in the chamber. Close the breech block, cap, and fire. It sounds slow, but it isn't.

Years ago, one or more suttlers sold kits of cut tubes and Caplugs. I can't recall if Yeck was one of them. Preston introduced me to the system when we shot his .54 Shiloh Sharps carbine, but the kits the suttlers sold didn't fit my .50 Sharps bullets and I had to make up my own.

I can't recall which bullet Preston used, but I believe that it was also from an NEI mould. He also used GOEX FFFg, 1/20 tin/lead, and SPG for lube. He was a Distinguished Skirmisher and Distinguished Revolver Shooter, and I believe that he also had his Distinguished Carbine Shooter badge.

Regards,
Don

[Maillemaker]

Hi Don,

Thanks for the description.

I think your method is a simplified version of the Yecks Tube. The Yeck's tube uses a piece of tubing with a cap plug in the end to seal it, but on the open end is placed a larger piece of rubber tubing, and the bullet sticks into that.

You stick bullet into the chamber, and the rubber sleeve won't fit into the chamber so when you push the main tube body the rubber tubing slides along the main tube (like a syringe) and it "injects" the bullet (and then powder) into the chamber.

Steve

[P.Altland]

Hi Don,

Thanks for the description.

I think your method is a simplified version of the Yecks Tube. The Yeck's tube uses a piece of tubing with a cap plug in the end to seal it, but on the open end is placed a larger piece of rubber tubing, and the bullet sticks into that.

You stick bullet into the chamber, and the rubber sleeve won't fit into the chamber so when you push the main tube body the rubber tubing slides along the main tube (like a syringe) and it "injects" the bullet (and then powder) into the chamber.

Steve
I believe you are thinking of Yore Tubes.

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