Why half-inch free trigger travel in muskets?

[Kevin Tinny]

Hello:

Noticed that the triggers in original sidelock muskets, even well rebuilt ones or high quality repro's seem to have quite a bit of free travel, up to a half-inch, before the top of the trigger contacts the sear bar.

With no spring in the trigger to restrain movement, the trigger can freely swing back and forth. This may be a design feature.

Perhaps a knowledgeable historian can enlighten me about why there is that much free travel. Thanks.

Kevin Tinny
42nd NY

[Dave Fox]

This may be an early incarnation of the military two-stage trigger. A, perhaps not the only, reason for this is to limit unintended or premature weapon discharge. This inquiry sent me to where my accumulation is stored and I found out the following: an M.1795, several M.1816s, an M.1842, M.1861, 1863, and 1864 all had the trigger slack to be taken up. M.1855 and M.1841 Harpers Ferry rifles and an M.1817 Common Rifle had little or no slack, maybe because these were weapons of some precision in the hands of troops of some expertise shooting deliberately, in theory. Strange to say, an M.1853 Palmetto .69 calibre musket lacked trigger slack and released with little or no take-up.

[P.Altland]

Probably because the sear sits lower in the half cock position. If you build up the trigger bar too much, the lock won't engage half cock

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[Eggman]

This may be an early incarnation of the military two-stage trigger. A, perhaps not the only, reason for this is to limit unintended or premature weapon discharge. This inquiry sent me to where my accumulation is stored and I found out the following: an M.1795, several M.1816s, an M.1842, M.1861, 1863, and 1864 all had the trigger slack to be taken up. M.1855 and M.1841 Harpers Ferry rifles and an M.1817 Common Rifle had little or no slack, maybe because these were weapons of some precision in the hands of troops of some expertise shooting deliberately, in theory. Strange to say, an M.1853 Palmetto .69 calibre musket lacked trigger slack and released with little or no take-up.
Well then Dave you can add the 1894 Mauser, the 1903 Springfield, the 1895 Moisen-Nagant, the M-1, the M-14, the M-16, the M-203 or whatever the hell it is now -- all have slack to compensate for that adrenalin rush. Troops are trained to shoot hard and fast to get God's suppressive fire. That means a lot of jerked triggers and an undelicate touch.

[Curt]

Hallo!

"Trigger Discipline" in the form of the trigger finger outside of the trigger guard until ready to fire would not be invented for a few years. :) :)

In my first year in the N-SSA, a former Marine drill sergeant in my group was helping me with my stance, hold, etc., etc.
He asked, if I had experience with automatic weapons?
I asked why he asked?
He said my finger "danced" on the trigger before I squeezed it. (I was not aware I did.)

Curt

[jonk]

Hallo!

"Trigger Discipline" in the form of the trigger finger outside of the trigger guard until ready to fire would not be invented for a few years. :) :)

In my first year in the N-SSA, a former Marine drill sergeant in my group was helping me with my stance, hold, etc., etc.
He asked, if I had experience with automatic weapons?
I asked why he asked?
He said my finger "danced" on the trigger before I squeezed it. (I was not aware I did.)

Curt

On a related note, I learned to shoot offhand using a military stance. I was taught by a former Army small arms instructor. When I got to the N-SSA, seeing these guys with their right elbows up in the air and their hand way out on the gun like it's a shotgun, I thought, "what a bunch of morons."

I quickly learned that having the right elbow up higher than you would holding a cartridge rifle has it's purpose; the ergonomics of the stocks on these beasties are such that having the elbow too far down makes you cant the gun. As for supporting the gun close in with the arm against the ribcage, or far out shotgun style, there is some merit to the way so many N-SSA shooters do that as well. You support a percussion gun near the rear, you get some snap from the cap on your supporting hand. Nothing a shooting glove doesn't fix, but if you don't use one, I would hold it way out there too. Then, you get to the big smoothbores, it's so darn nose heavy you need more muscle to support it near the breech than you do the middle band.

Anyhow, to get back to the question, I noticed this trigger slop myself. I brazed a bead onto the top of the trigger to take some of it up. I like a 2 stage trigger myself, so I didn't take it all up. What P.Atland says is probably true as well, for some guns anyhow; though there is still quite a bit of slop in evidence that can be removed if you are so inclined.

[Maillemaker]

When I replaced the tumbler in my Pedersoli P58, there was a tremendous amount of slop in the trigger. I built up the back of the trigger plate with jbweld. I should probably go back and solder on an extension.

Steve

[Charlie Hahn]

The trigger slop is a result of a stack up of tolerances, and the lack of a standard inch. Something had to give so the guns would go together. To help this, I add a forward assist to take this up.

Charlie Hahn