Stud and Blade Sight Bayonet

[MarkTK36thIL]

Good afternoon,
If only I was so driven to find the answers to much more important questions in the world. I am looking at this bayonet that does not fit the parameters of my resource materials. Maybe someone with a much more advanced arms collection could ID this one. I ruled out the Remington Maynard musket because they have the front barrel band with a sight. It does not appear to be some sort of Italian modern day copy that I can tell.

The only guide I have right now is from Reilly plate B72A that theorizes Derringer might have supplied an unknown quantity of Common Rifles from parts in the 1850s, but I don't want to assume anything at the moment.

The measurements using the SOABC guidelines:
A. Overall length is 21"
B. Socket length is 2.982 inches
C. Blade Length is 18.01 inches
D.
E. Bore diameter is .81"
F. Measures 1.227" from the muzzle
G. Bridge height is .22"

Sight would need to be at minimum of 1.755" from stock, and. Only markings are "U.S" and "K."


The only other possibilities that I can think of are:
1. Common Rifle
2. Krider Rifled Musket
3. Leman Rifle Musket
4.J. Henry and Son Rifle Musket5064506550665067

[bobanderson]

Would it fit a Smoothbore, like my H&P?

(I'm too lazy to go out and measure my barrel OD.)

[MR. GADGET]

Looks like an 1816 to me. There were several used with them and small changes over the years.

why are there 2 pictured in the last shot? What one you looking to ID the one on the left?

[MarkTK36thIL]

I pictured the normal 1816 bayonet on the left for a comparison of the bridge. Here is a H&P bayonet (right) pictured next to the mystery one (left). You'll see how much thicker the bridge is. Maybe they adapted H&P bayonets to have a thicker than normal bridge to alter them for use with the unknown musket, or H&P had varying thicknesses of the bridge? I only have one H&P to compare to.

I'm clueless among many things, and this is my new research project.


50685069

[John Holland]

Mark is trying to ID the bayonet with the sight blade clearance cut in the bridge of the socket. The bayonet blade's shoulder shape puts the bayonet in the post-1855 time frame. The combination of an 1816 T-slot socket with the shoulder-less blade with a U.S. makes it an 1861/62 Federal replacement for the 1816's needing bayonets. However, the addition of the sight blade clearance cut is the stumbling block. The bore diameter will assist in determining which rifle it may have been intended for. I just haven't had the time to investigate anything regarding that.

John Holland
Society of American Bayonet Collectors
(SABC)

[Jim_Burgess_2078V]

I'm wondering if it might be for a M1841 Mississippi rifle with a turned down muzzle? There were so many different bayonets, sword and socket, retrofitted to these rifles it is hard to keep track of them all. I do not have my reference material handy to be sure. One thing is certain, it must be a fairly rare specimen as I have not seen others like this floating around. The bridge at least looks like it was made to accept the front sight blade and is not a simple modification of a musket bayonet. I have several M1816/1861 reissue bayonets in my collection and there is some variation in all of them. They were generally not interchangeable.

Jim Burgess
15th CVI / SABC

[MarkTK36thIL]

My brother posed one hypothesis, that perhaps H&P was making a bunch of generic blades to pair up with whatever muskets/rifles XYZ Arsenal had on-hand. It would make sense of why so few produced and existing examples are only known to one to my knowledge. (Heritage Auctions claimed it was a m1817 Common Rifle).