Euroarms barrel

[keweenaw]

Good day all and happy new year.

I recently picked up a used Euroarms M1855 rifle musket. In shooting it with snug minie balls from a bench, both wadcutters and new style minie's, and various powder charges, the results are disappointing. I always used to build guns with Bill Large barrels and had excellent accuracy with them. No experience with Euroarms though, but this accuracy is ridiculous. In dismounting the barrel, there terrible bedding. Looks like the barrel has three lumps of bedding underneath the barrel bands, but no where else. Don't know if this is what Euroarms did in the day to quickly fit the barrel to stock, or whether someone had previously tried bedding it. Certainly not the way I would do it. I have bedded guns in the past and achieved good results, so I will try that next. BUT, i was wondering what the consensus was on the quality and accuracy of the Euroarms barrels themselves. If the barrel is no good bedding wont help much. I will try it though.

Can you veterans give me some of your opinions on this?

Lastly, if needed, where could I obtain a target quality replacement barrel? I have lost track of who is providing what over the years.

Thanks!!

[Lou Lou Lou]

Bobby Hoyt felines barrels
Dan Whitaker makes replacement barrels. Both shoot dry well

[Ron/The Old Reb]

I have both a 1861 Richmond two bander and a carbine with Euroarms barrels. They both are full glass bedded and they shoot nice groups off the bench with 43grs. of 3F Goex with a 315gr. wadcutter and the International Minnie. I have won several medals with both. I wouldn't give up just yet I would try rebeding the barrel.

[keweenaw]

I have both a 1861 Richmond two bander and a carbine with Euroarms barrels. They both are full glass bedded and they shoot nice groups off the bench with 43grs. of 3F Goex with a 315gr. wadcutter and the International Minnie. I have won several medals with both. I wouldn't give up just yet I would try rebeding the barrel.

Having been away from shooting for a long while, and looking to glass bed the above mentioned Euroarms musket, I dug through my ancient stuff and found two Accraglass bedding kits. These go back probably decades. Looked through them and the resin and hardener are still liquid. The release agent however has solidified after the alcohol has been evaporated I guess.

A couple of questions;
1. Do you think the resin and hardener is still good for mixing and bedding?
2. Other than what is in the kit, what do you folks use for a release agent? I have used car wax in the past, and it seemed to work (along with the release agent). Any suggestions?

Thanks

[keweenaw]

to follow up on my last post.

The resin is clear in color, the hardener is dark, about the color of dark walnut. I dont remember what they looked like originally. Do you think the hardener is compromised. It is almost the color of the packet of stain powder included in the kit. Price tag is still on the boxes; $6.95 !

[Rebel Dave]

If its that old, I personally wouldn't use it. Why take the chance of having it not come loose, or having an undried mess on your hands. Get a new "Acra-Glass Gel" kit. The gel kit is mixed 1to1. I also use the Brownells Spray on release agent. Its a little spendy, but worth it as it does a good job, and is easy cleanup.
You can get both at Brownells, or Trackof the Wolf. Track of the Wolf is a little cheaper, with less shipping charges.

I did have some bedding kits that hardened on me before I used them, and Brownells replaced them for me @ no charge.

Rebel Dave

[keweenaw]

If its that old, I personally wouldn't use it. Why take the chance of having it not come loose, or having an undried mess on your hands. Get a new "Acra-Glass Gel" kit. The gel kit is mixed 1to1. I also use the Brownells Spray on release agent. Its a little spendy, but worth it as it does a good job, and is easy cleanup.
You can get both at Brownells, or Trackof the Wolf. Track of the Wolf is a little cheaper, with less shipping charges.

I did have some bedding kits that hardened on me before I used them, and Brownells replaced them for me @ no charge.

Rebel Dave

Yup, thats what I was thinking too. However, my parsimonious nature (sometimes) wants to go the cheap route. I am going to see if the local gun shop is open tomorrow, and will see if they have any new kits.

Still looking for more opinions on the Euroarms barrels. Is their accuracy sort of random (speaking of the barrels themselves) or reasonable consistent? This M1855 is very nice looking and would love to make it a tack driver. All of my previous experience was with Bill Large barrels, and they were exceptional. Were the Euroarms barrels consistent depth rifling or progressive? And, has anyone run into issues with them not be consistent throughout the length of the barrel?

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Out of the box EOA muskets were never bedded from the factory. If the musket has any bedding, it was done after purchase. And from the sound of it, it evidently was not a good bedding job. Acra-Glas makes two primary products: Acra-Glas (red and blue box) permanent bedding which hardens rigid, like for bedding an M-14, and the gel-type (green and blue box), which remains flexible, which many skirmishers tend to use because that is what most gun shops sell. It is also more forgiving, and has a longer set-up time, so it best for beginners. If you want the professional type, you will need to order it from someplace like Brownell's. I buy their professional shop kit which has enough bedding epoxy to bed 30 stocks, and the epoxy is good for about 5 years. The little gel kits only have enough epoxy for 2 stocks, and has a shorter shelf life. I don't like it because it doesn't hold, and tends to peel out. As with any bedded gun, you really need to put the whole gun in the freezer or put it outside in the cold for half an hour to 2 hours, depending on the action, to allow the metal to contract, making it easier to remove from the bedding. Otherwise, I have seen match-grade M-14s come into my shop that soldiers had broke the wood stocks trying to free the action from the stocks just to clean the rifles because they didn't know the actions were not supposed to be removed from the stock as part of their accurizing!

As for colors, the kits usually comes with black and brown (and sometimes green), and you mix it to match the color of the wood or plastic stock. For my own purposes, particularly for muskets, I use the 2-point method and will bed the breech fully, by grinding out the wood to replace it with epoxy all underneath the tang and breech. I then extend the bedding up the barrel about the first six to eight inches, and then bed about the last two inches of the barrel at the nose cap. The rest of the barrel floats in the channel as it needs to move rather than bedding it for the full length. Another "old-time" method was to use bee's-wax in the channel because it would soften when the barrel heated up and it shifted to provide support as the barrel warped with the heat.

[Maillemaker]

I only have experience with one Euroarms musket.

My first musket was a Euroarms P1853. I bought it before I knew about the N-SSA, and then did some googling and found us. So I showed up at my first skirmish, and our commander, Bob Kelley, provided ammo for me. Now I've been shooting all my life, and like to think I'm a decent shot. I've still got young eyes and can hold still. Anyway so Bob, not knowing me from Adam, had me shoot at an individual target on the line to show that I could safely operate a musket.

So I take a shot at 50 yards. In the black. Bob looks over and I can see he's thinking, "Ok, maybe this guy can shoot". So I shoot again. And again. And again. Most of the shots are not even hitting the cardboard. I can see Bob looking sideways at me going, "Uh-oh."

So we wander out to the cardboard and take a look. Most of the bullets were keyholing through the cardboard sideways.

I didn't have any pin gauges, or any way to slug the barrel, so I just kept buying bigger and bigger bullets and sizers. Eventually it was discovered that the thing required a .584 bullet for a decent fit. But even then, it never shot worth a darn.

So ultimately I got rid of the Euroarms barrel and bought a new one from Whitacre, and Richard Hill glass bedded it for me. It is now a tack driver.

The mistake I made, was I did not keep the cast breech of the original barrel for Whitacre to marry to a new barrel. I figured "all new" was best. But it isn't, because the original breech, with its original breech plug/tang, fits into your stock perfectly, and your hammer will strike the original nipple perfectly. With the new breech, all had to be fitted to work again.

So, if you decide on a new barrel, and I highly recommend Whitacre, then be sure to send him the old one so he can keep your original breech.

Of all my rifled reproduction guns, none of them shoot as well as my two with custom barrels. I've got my P53 with Whitacre barrel, and a JRA Richmond Carbine with Hoyt Barrel. Both are tack drivers in that off a bench they will produce a single ragged hole in the paper at 50 yards.

Steve

[keweenaw]

I only have experience with one Euroarms musket.

My first musket was a Euroarms P1853. I bought it before I knew about the N-SSA, and then did some googling and found us. So I showed up at my first skirmish, and our commander, Bob Kelley, provided ammo for me. Now I've been shooting all my life, and like to think I'm a decent shot. I've still got young eyes and can hold still. Anyway so Bob, not knowing me from Adam, had me shoot at an individual target on the line to show that I could safely operate a musket.

So I take a shot at 50 yards. In the black. Bob looks over and I can see he's thinking, "Ok, maybe this guy can shoot". So I shoot again. And again. And again. Most of the shots are not even hitting the cardboard. I can see Bob looking sideways at me going, "Uh-oh."

So we wander out to the cardboard and take a look. Most of the bullets were keyholing through the cardboard sideways.

I didn't have any pin gauges, or any way to slug the barrel, so I just kept buying bigger and bigger bullets and sizers. Eventually it was discovered that the thing required a .584 bullet for a decent fit. But even then, it never shot worth a darn.

So ultimately I got rid of the Euroarms barrel and bought a new one from Whitacre, and Richard Hill glass bedded it for me. It is now a tack driver.

The mistake I made, was I did not keep the cast breech of the original barrel for Whitacre to marry to a new barrel. I figured "all new" was best. But it isn't, because the original breech, with its original breech plug/tang, fits into your stock perfectly, and your hammer will strike the original nipple perfectly. With the new breech, all had to be fitted to work again.

So, if you decide on a new barrel, and I highly recommend Whitacre, then be sure to send him the old one so he can keep your original breech.

Of all my rifled reproduction guns, none of them shoot as well as my two with custom barrels. I've got my P53 with Whitacre barrel, and a JRA Richmond Carbine with Hoyt Barrel. Both are tack drivers in that off a bench they will produce a single ragged hole in the paper at 50 yards.

Steve

Thanks for the responses. I always used to use Bill Large barrels and they were great. This Euroarms is three groove barrel and the minies are very snug. I am going the acraglass route for bedding as soon as I get the package. Used to do this with the Bill Large barrels as well. My experience is that a good quality gun should shoot one ragged hole groups at 50 yards. I am currently using minie's sized to .576, and as said, they are snug. Should be able to bed and shoot by this weekend, i hope Will let you know the results.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Southron Sr, a regular on the BB, can provide more specifics on the early EOA product line. He and Tom Hunger established EOA in Winchester in 1976, and worked under Louis Amadi (founder of Euroarms of Italy), so they were the ones who imported the first EOA guns into this country. Many of the earlier replica guns had traditional button-style rifling, as opposed to the newer use of broach-rifling. With button rifling, only one groove is cut at a time, and the depth is increased with successive passes. In broach rifling (like what Pedersoli uses with their CAD-CAM system), it cuts all the grooves at the same time, in a single pass, using a compound broach cutter that is cone-shaped, such that each cutter removing only a small portion of the metal from the bore to form the grooves, with the rearward cutters successively increasing the depth. Most of EOA's later production, just as ArmiSport/Chiappa's, use traditional button-rifling, as does Hoyt and Whitacre.

Personally, I like Hoyt and Whitacre's work, but after seeing Larry Romano's rifling, with its polished grooves, he's gotten more of my business. In fact, he is relining two Spencer rifles for me as we speak, and is re-cutting the rifling for my Pedersoli Gibb's rifle from .40 to .453 for 1,000 yard shooting.

[Southron Sr.]

As for those OLD boxes of Glass Bedding....throw them in the dumpster and get some NEW bedding kits.

The late, great John Stotler (Skirmisher and Gunsmith) Glass Bedded a lot of Skirmish arms and he rarely used release agent!

John would simply heat the Glass Bedded barrel up to approximately 300 F with a Propane Torch (being careful not to scorch or char the wood of the stock.) According to John, the barrel, after cooling down, could be easily popped out of the stock after the Tang Screw and Barrel Bands were removed.

[keweenaw]

Well i mixed a small sample of the ancient glass bedding kit i had to see if it would harden. It did NOT. There definitely is a shelf life for these kits. FWIW, the hardener liquid in these old kits had turned very dark. That may be an indicator that it is bad.