Pedersoli Sharps load workup, round 2.

[Maillemaker]

Having just gotten my Pedersoli Sharps back from Larry Flees who performed an excellent modification on it to keep the breech block from seizing up, I went to the range today to do a complete load workup.

Here you can see the results of my load workup:

http://i.imgur.com/KYXBB2sl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TtPNczsl.jpg

The first time I did a load workup, I thought 50 grains had produced the best group. But the shots were all high off the target and I was compensating my point of aim to try and get them on target. I have since replaced the front sight with a taller one.

Now, it seems 30 grains produces the smallest average group.

http://i.imgur.com/mQHJ6XW.png

But I noticed with the smaller charges I was having some failures to fire or they were slow to go off. I am using a wad to keep the powder against the rear of the cartridge so that is not the issue. It may be there was some residual oil from Larry's work that I did not sufficiently blast out of the fire channel (I started shooting the lower-weight charges first).

I'll also point out that the experiment with the 17 pound recycled vellum was a success. The cartridges burned completely away just as well as the nitrated notebook computer without the hassle of nitrating.

Steve

[Maillemaker]

Man, it's a hoot shooting this thing. It is really cool to use combustible cartridges - there's nothing to unload - no tubes to pick up and keep track of. You just shoot these suckers as fast as you can cram them into the chamber. I can't wait to use this sucker in team competition. The only problem is - I'll have to pack more ammo!

Steve

[Eggman]

And you're absolutely, possitividesly, unequivocally, most certainly, profoundly, dirty dog sure you wont shove a live cartridge on top of a burning ember?!?!!?!

[Maillemaker]

Nope. But I'm moving to the 17 pound vellum paper, un-nitrated, so it won't be as susceptible to lighting up as the nitrated paper cartridges were. The nitrated cartridges were nice in that they burned more completely, but they worried be because if a tiny spark gets on them they will start to burn. Regular paper takes more heat to get going. And of course you've got a big old lube-covered bullet pushing in nose-first, which helps clear the way.

Still, it's a possibility.

Steve

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Has anybody actually witnessed a Sharp's round going off due to an ember in the barrel? I guess that would be the Sharp's version of a cook off.

[Scooby]

Are you saying you dip lubed the entire bullet for your Sharps? To the point that you have lube on the nose and sides of the projectile? If so, I always thought that was a no no for accuracy reasons...

[Maillemaker]

Are you saying you dip lubed the entire bullet for your Sharps? To the point that you have lube on the nose and sides of the projectile? If so, I always thought that was a no no for accuracy reasons...

Yes, that is how I made them up:

http://i.imgur.com/uTHIuS1l.jpg

I don't have a .54 sizer for my lubrisizer, and even if I did, I'd be worried about getting lube on the ring-tail and so not being able to glue them into the paper cartridge. Though it should be possible to adjust the depth of the bullet into the lubrisizer so that the lube only goes into the lube grooves.

Lube on the sides of the bullet should not be a problem - it will be scraped off by the bore as it is pushed into the rifling.

During the Civil War, to save lube in the Confederate arsenals they made a little scraper tool that was basically a piece of sheet metal with the bullet nose profile cut into it that could be spun on the nose of the bullet to scrape off lube.

Steve

[bobanderson]

And you're absolutely, possitividesly, unequivocally, most certainly, profoundly, dirty dog sure you wont shove a live cartridge on top of a burning ember?!?!!?!

The embers, if any, would be in the barrel, wouldn't they? The barrel is sealed by the next bullet, right? When I shot my Sharps, I used to blow down the breech just before loading it. Never had a problem.

[Maillemaker]

The embers, if any, would be in the barrel, wouldn't they? The barrel is sealed by the next bullet, right?

When I was using plain printer paper for the cartridges, I would sometimes find paper remnants in the chamber, before the barrel. Since the bullet is not a perfect fit for the chamber, it could be possible for something to slip past the bullet. Probably unlikely though - it will generally get pushed ahead of the bullet into the barrel.

But once I switched to 17 pound recycled vellum for the paper it now fully consumes even when not nitrated.

Steve

[Eggman]

We had an old papa-san in our building in VIetnam that walked around with a toilet plunger and a pith helmet on his head that used to smoke that vellum in our latrine.

[P.Altland]

Has anybody actually witnessed a Sharp's round going off due to an ember in the barrel? I guess that would be the Sharp's version of a cook off.

Happened to a Skirmisher at the 122nd National. He was using rolled cartridges made from hair curler papers.


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[jonk]

Happened to a Skirmisher at the 122nd National. He was using rolled cartridges made from hair curler papers.


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I've always wondered about this.

I would imagine that if it happened, it would be interesting in result... you'd probably get more powder burns to the thumb than you would with a cook off in a muzzleloader, potentially even losing part of the thumb due to the proximity of the cook off. It's why I always give a good stiff blow to the chamber between loading rounds. When I shoot my sharps that is.

Even so I think that circumstance would have to be just right for it to happen; a combo of non-nitrated papers still glowing and thin papers that would burn through quickly. I can't see a hahn tube for instance cooking off, as the material is just too thick. If you shoot nitrated paper you roll yourself, while I do sometimes see some residue in the chamber after firing, I would think the nitrate would consume any part of the cartridge that could hold an ember, leaving just a carbon shell... I hope.

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Jonk,

I'm glad you check the chamber and barrel for debris before reloading the Sharps. I didn't shoot mine for long when I shot it a few years ago, but I did the same. If I saw anything, I blew it out before I loaded the next round.

[Maillemaker]

Happened to a Skirmisher at the 122nd National. He was using rolled cartridges made from hair curler papers.

So what happened to him?

Steve

[P.Altland]

So what happened to him?

Steve

We were working ordnance duty around his position for carbine match. Had an opportunity to ask the generic "what did you do to your hand". If memory serves, he had burns as one would expect, but nothing more serious than that. Looked like he had a Mickey Mouse hand with all the gauze.


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[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Since we got an explanation for what happened to the Sharps with embers in the barrel, let me ask another question. During the War, there was a shelf under the breech block where loose powder could accumulate. If it wasn't removed through cleaning, it could explode, blowing off the forestock of the carbine. Has anyone ever done this in a carbine match?

[Charlie Hahn]

Regarding the fore arm issue. I have had two here that where split from and event. One was from a bunch of powder in the fore arm, the other was from a very large charge that pressurized the stock and split it out about 6 inches due to a severe breech leak.
Also I see many guns with evidence of fire in the fore arm. This is from a little crud, to charcoal in the spring area. I do not think it is powder build up over time as the loose powder would typically be consumed with each shot. I one gun I had, was due to a shell tube, almost full dump into the fore arm. I understood this did not happen during a match but during home practice.

In any case, it is important to know if your gun leaks, and whether it leaps up or down. If you shoot close to a service charge and it leaks down you could have an issue.

Charlie

[jonk]

Regarding the leaking powder building up under the forearm, I soak a piece of sponge in grease and jam it into the 'shelf' to negate this possibility.

[Maillemaker]

Good idea, Jonk!

Steve

[Eggman]

Kind of reminds me of that extra thrill soldiers got when they set the trip wire on a claymore. Get that same kind of excitement from the sharps - wondering if the cartridge will go off in your hand when you load, or if the stock will blow off when you fire.

[Wayne Clark]

Egg,
Just what type of a trip wire did you put on your claymore?
W. Clark

[gemmer]

Egg,
Just what type of a trip wire did you put on your claymore?
W. Clark

I liked the 2 plastic C rat spoons trick.

[Maillemaker]

Kind of reminds me of that extra thrill soldiers got when they set the trip wire on a claymore. Get that same kind of excitement from the sharps - wondering if the cartridge will go off in your hand when you load, or if the stock will blow off when you fire.

Or if it's leaky, set your sleeve on fire!

We put the Egg in Eggcitement! :)

[Fred Jr]

I have been shooting a Sharps carbine for around 30 years. Shot it until I had to have Charlie do his o-ring job. Several of my family, brother, father, sister and several team mates have also used sharps for many years. Michinegun Rod shoots his so fast he can shoot 12 to 15 rounds in a two minute rapid fire event. To my knowledge not one of our folks have had any type of cartridge pre-ingnition. We have used paper that was nitrated but was not curler paper. I currently use Charlie's tubes. great improvement from hand making. Still a bit of a pain ! Now let's just hope i haven't jinxed our success!