Rapine Gallager mould

[Owen F]

Anybody have a Rapine Gallager mould that they are wanting to sell?

I am trying to get an original Gallager shooting and the Moose Gallager bullet is improperly shaped to work in an original, it doesn't sit far enough into the case so you can't close the gun. I tried my teammates cartridges made with the Rapine bullet and it fits fine.

[C.W. Artillery]

12 October 2016

At one time I was quite friendly with Ray Rapine when he traveled to the Fort from Pennsylvania to open and operate his Sutlers Shop on the old corner location. He talked about retiring and selling out, and that is what happened. Ray was a very knowledgeable person and willing to share his knowledge in order to help other shooters.

Does anyone know where Ray is these days? He last told me he wanted to purchase a large strat-a-cruiser motor home and move to Florida. I would really like to be in contact with Ray once again, if that were to be possible. My Rapine 45/70, 500 grain round nose mould is on my shelf, waiting for me to heat it up. It is one of the most perfect bullet moulds going for long range targets.

I do hope that you are able to locate the Rapine " Gallager mould that Ray once produced. I know a fellow N-SSA shooter who was a Gallager owner/shooter and if I am able to locate a mould for you, I'll be back in touch with additional information.

Regards,

Webb

[Jud96]

What is the bore diameter on your Gallager? The Rapine is .540 and the original barrels are around .515-.525

[Owen F]

The barrel slugs to about .523. I know the Rapine bullet is .540 but my teammate has been using it for years in his original Gallager. And his cartridge fits in mine just fine. The Rapine bullet is designed to fit deeper into the case than the Moose and that makes all the difference as to whether the cartridge will fit or not.

[Jud96]

The barrel slugs to about .523. I know the Rapine bullet is .540 but my teammate has been using it for years in his original Gallager. And his cartridge fits in mine just fine. The Rapine bullet is designed to fit deeper into the case than the Moose and that makes all the difference as to whether the cartridge will fit or not.

Yeah I have an Erma and shoot the Rapine in mine. My brother also has an Erma but his has a Hoyt liner and his bore is around .512 and we shoot a Lyman .515139 340gr bullet in it and it fits just fine in the casings and closes up. I don't like the Moose Mould either for the Gallager, they need to place the driving band where the grease groove is so the slug fits deeper in the case like you said. I wish someone would remake the Rapine Gallager bullet or make another heeled bullet that is very similar.

[Owen F]

My original bore is more than good enough to shoot and I don't like messing with original guns, a la lining them, unless they are screwed up when I get them. I'm not going to ruin a good original piece just to shoot it. If I have to, I'll see if a machinist I know can make me a mould that will make a copy of the original Poultney & Trimble bullet, but I'll try to find a Rapine first. Easier and probably cheaper in the end.

Moose seems to make good moulds in general. It's just that there is a problem with the Gallager. And I got a hell of an attitude from her when I was at their booth this past weekend when trying to find out what was going on. We spent some time with the gun and cartridge and when it was determined that the bullet is the problem, she basically told me "tough, it's your problem now". Not really caring that their is a problem with their product, nor wanting to fix it at all.

[Jud96]

My original bore is more than good enough to shoot and I don't like messing with original guns, a la lining them, unless they are screwed up when I get them. I'm not going to ruin a good original piece just to shoot it. If I have to, I'll see if a machinist I know can make me a mould that will make a copy of the original Poultney & Trimble bullet, but I'll try to find a Rapine first. Easier and probably cheaper in the end.

Moose seems to make good moulds in general. It's just that there is a problem with the Gallager. And I got a hell of an attitude from her when I was at their booth this past weekend when trying to find out what was going on. We spent some time with the gun and cartridge and when it was determined that the bullet is the problem, she basically told me "tough, it's your problem now". Not really caring that their is a problem with their product, nor wanting to fix it at all.

I didn't say you had to reline your barrel. All I said is other style bullets work in the brass besides the Rapine. Moose makes good moulds from what I hear but if the Gallager bullet doesn't work they should fix it. I am aware of what the Rapine looks like because I shoot them and I have seen the Moose Gallager bullets before. The problem with the Moose is the location of the lube groove and driving band. They need to switch the two and put the grease groove below the driving band so more of the slug is inside the casing.

[Owen F]

I get what your saying. Originally I tried shooting it with a Lyman 515 bullet made for the 50-70 cartridge but that was too small, didn't grab the rifling at all. I just figured I'd try to find the Rapine mould that I know works first. And if I can't, form a plan B and go with that.

I've always been a stickler for originality, be it in the ammo I shoot or the uniform I wear for shooting. Hell, I was one of 2 people in Ft. Shenandoah wearing Mann's equipment last weekend, the other being my dad, because it's right for the 15th NJ. Also it's really nice to use. That's probably part of the reason why making or having made a mould made for the Poultney &Trimble bullet is kind of appealing to me.

[Jud96]

I get what your saying. Originally I tried shooting it with a Lyman 515 bullet made for the 50-70 cartridge but that was too small, didn't grab the rifling at all. I just figured I'd try to find the Rapine mould that I know works first. And if I can't, form a plan B and go with that.

I've always been a stickler for originality, be it in the ammo I shoot or the uniform I wear for shooting. Hell, I was one of 2 people in Ft. Shenandoah wearing Mann's equipment last weekend, the other being my dad, because it's right for the 15th NJ. Also it's really nice to use. That's probably part of the reason why making or having made a mould made for the Poultney &Trimble bullet is kind of appealing to me.

Hopefully you can find a Rapine mould. I have tossed around the idea of relining my Erma to .515 but I already have a good load and everything figured out with the .54cal barrel. And there is nothing wrong with wearing the correct uniform. I am the same way, I have a pretty authentic uniform from my cavalry trousers to my Mounted Services Jacket.

This is off topic, but what is Mann's equipment. First time hearing about it and I always love learning about Civil War arms and equipment.

[Owen F]

This is an original set of Mann's equipment that belongs to my dad. It was a system of leather goods that was devised to redistribute the weight of a soldiers equipment evenly over their body. Making more comfortable to carry all your stuff. They were issued to the 1st division of the 6th corps in the spring of 1864, the 15th NJ being one of those units.

It's a little bit of a pain to put on, but very comfortable once it is. And the cartridge box on the front makes it easy to check your ammo while shooting and very easy to sit in a chair between relays.

[Jud96]

Wow that is awesome! Where did you get your leather made? I am assuming you are using reproduction equipment.

[Owen F]

Yeah, it's reproduction leather that we use. Original Mann's is just too rare, fragile, and valuable to try and use. My dad made up about a dozen sets 30-35 years ago. That's what pretty much everybody in my unit that uses Mann's equipment still uses, most of those dozen remained in the unit. There is another 15th NJ that's a reenacting group that we occasionally do stuff with, and they just commissioned a person to make several sets for them. They let us know they were doing it and took orders from us as well.

[Jud96]

Yeah, it's reproduction leather that we use. Original Mann's is just too rare, fragile, and valuable to try and use. My dad made up about a dozen sets 30-35 years ago. That's what pretty much everybody in my unit that uses Mann's equipment still uses, most of those dozen remained in the unit. There is another 15th NJ that's a reenacting group that we occasionally do stuff with, and they just commissioned a person to make several sets for them. They let us know they were doing it and took orders from us as well.

That is really cool. I had no idea about these accouterments until you mentioned this and I have done a fair share of research and own a few really good books on Civil War equipment and gear. Too bad no one currently makes these leathers or I would look into getting a set just to have. Very, very neat, thanks for sharing.

[Owen F]

Your more than welcome to stop by the camp site and ask around if you want a set. Some of our older members who used Mann's don't shoot anymore so they might be willing to sell. Or like my dad, is getting one of the new custom made sets and have an old spare set lying around. We're on the top of Coronary Ridge.

[Owen F]

Your more than welcome to come up to our camp site and ask around. Some of our older members don't shoot anymore so they may be willing to sell their Mann's. And others are like my dad and ordered the new sets so they have extra sets lying around. We're on top of Coronary Ridge.

[CAGerringer]

What was attached above the cartridge box?

Charlie Gerringer
Old Dominion Dragoons

[Owen F]

What was attached above the cartridge box?

Charlie Gerringer
Old Dominion Dragoons

Those hooks on the front, along with a couple brass rings on the back side of the waist belt, were for a specially designed knapsack. Again, designed to more evenly distribute the weight across a person's body. The funny thing is that while the 15th NJ got the Mann's cartridge boxes in the spring of 1864, they never got the knapsacks. The knapsacks, I believe, got sent to somewhere in Louisiana where they were completely useless to whoever got them. So we had these great cartridge boxes, and used the standard issue knapsacks.

[Fortitudine]

Check yer PM's

[Jim Leinicke 7368V]

Anybody have a Rapine Gallager mould that they are wanting to sell?

I am trying to get an original Gallager shooting and the Moose Gallager bullet is improperly shaped to work in an original, it doesn't sit far enough into the case so you can't close the gun. I tried my teammates cartridges made with the Rapine bullet and it fits fine.


I have both a Rapine and an old custom mould made for an original Gallagher. Contact me at <usrifle1841@sbcglobal.net> and we can work out something.
Jim Leinicke

[moosette]

Hi Owen - responding to your posts regarding our bullet mould design, our attempt to work with you on resolving this matter, and the background of our Gallagher Bullet mould:

As you are aware - Moose was unable to attend the Nationals, so I asked my fellow teammate who owns a Gallagher to come to the booth and try to see if we could collectively come up with a solution. He, along with a few other knowledgeable skirmishers, spent quite a bit of time working with the design of the bullet and how it fit into your cases. As you are aware, the bottom line was not in our design of the bullet - but in the full length size of your cases.

This bullet was designed for a shallow shoulder inside the case. That being said, if you full length trim your cases - you will get our designed bullet to fit. That is how our bullet was designed from a skirmisher who - back in the 70's - tested all different designs of bullets and finally came up with a two bearing surface bullet vs. Rapine's single bearing surface bullet.

Not only does our brochure give a picture of the bullet, we also have samples of our bullets on display at the booth so that you know ahead of time what it is that you are purchasing. In the 5 years we have been in business, we have sold exactly 28 Gallagher moulds - not one of those having an issue. In fact, many customers who purchased this mould took the time to let us know how well they shot, and the success they had with our bullet mould design.

Customer Service has always been our number one priority and the negative comment you made about attitudes and it being your problem was certainly mis-lead. Being skirmishers ourselves, we truly understand the desire to have the perfect bullet design for our black-powder firearm in order to achieve the best results. With the explanation above, along with suggestions made by those at the booth who reviewed your Gallagher, cases and bullets, we are hopeful that you will be able to make the necessary modifications required to make all three work together.

As always, please feel free to contact us directly should you require any further information. Being a part-time hobbyist business, we will make every effort to get back to you within a timely fashion, as our full-time work schedules will allow.

Regards,
Moose & Moosette

[Owen F]

Moosette, I say this in the most polite way I can but I hope you see the ridiculousness in your statement. You are essentially telling me that a brand new brass case whose external dimensions are the same as an original Gallager brass case are wrong. The fact is that any original Gallager cartridge fits into my carbine just fine and the ones I put together with bullets made from you mould to try and shoot don't fit at all. The amount of machining I would have to do on every case I have to make them work with your bullet is immense, it's not just trimming the overall length shorter but turning the inside deeper as well. And seeing that I don't own a lathe, that becomes a rather expensive prospect.

Perhaps I'm weird for wanting to shoot an original carbine, and perhaps I'm the first person who has tried to use your bullet in an original and not an Erma. The long and short of it is that I am just not happy with your product. Anything I need to do to make it work requires a huge amount of machining, time, and money. And the cheapest and easiest way for me to get this gun shooting is to find and purchase a Rapine mould since the few cartridges I have made with those bullets, which I got from a teammate, have no problems loading.

Seeing that I am unhappy with my mould I'd like to return it to either get my money back or possibly swap it for something else that I could actually use. But if your unwilling to do that then I guess I'm out of luck.

[jonk]

I can't speak to the particulars of this instance of course. Nor would I try.

I would say however, that a teammate who shoots a Gallagher found that the reproduction brass cases were at fault. The thickness of the brass and the depth of the inside shoulder were all wrong. He either had to hammer the bullet in and shave off lead, or the case would have been too fat if he had simply seated the bullet so as not to shave lead.

He is shooting an original, but with a Hahn liner, including the chamber I believe.

All I am saying is: I don't know if the mold is to blame or not, but I know this to be an issue with some of the repro cases out there.

[Eggman]

No (known) dog in this fight but I would offer this - if there were a handbook on everything you need to know to be a skirmisher I would have a section called - be prepared to work up your own load/bullet/powder/lube/sight/whoknowswhat configuration. THAT'S WHAT MAKES THIS SPORT FUN! If you want everything done for you go down to Academy and buy an inline with pyrodex/sabot bullets and go down to the range and shoot by yourself.
Example: I shoot an original beater Spencer with Hoyt liner. The new .56-50 cases with the three stars on the SMALLER head WILL NOT EJECT (made for the repros of course). Cut down .50-70s work perfectly. The preferred bullet I use wobbles around in the neck so I let the case corrode up for better grip. Still trying to figure out how to get the 35 grains of powder in there for best accuracy.
To get where I am (wherever that is) I bought mould mould mould, cases cases cases, etc. etc. etc., and everybody owes me a refund.

[John Holland]

To OwenF & Moose Moulds, I have been advised it is time for both parties to take this discussion off-line.
Please settle your differences through the USPS, or normal Email and PM channels.
Thank you.
John Holland
BB Moderator

[Owen F]

To OwenF & Moose Moulds, I have been advised it is time for both parties to take this discussion off-line.
Please settle your differences through the USPS, or normal Email and PM channels.
Thank you.
John Holland
BB Moderator

I'm sorry if this thread has gotten out of hand. My intention from the beginning, and still is, to just find a bullet mould. That is all. If you feel you need to, delete the thread. I'll wait a while and then try again to find what I need.