another bullet lube question

[tackdriver]

After years of using my own lube concoction, I decided to go with the standard 50/50 beeswax/Crisco mix. Although I like mine, it drys hard and was less messy when I dumped them into my box, they really foul up the barrel after a dozen rounds.

So my question is, is the 50/50 ratio by weight or volume? As to the beeswax, do you guys use the bar or pellets neither or both? Anybody got a good, inexpensive source for the wax?

When do you guys size your bullets? Before or after lubing? I usually did it after lubing cuz I liked how it forced my lube into the grooves.

Thanks!

[ms3635v]

Try a little olive oil mixed in until you get the consistency you like.

[tackdriver]

Thanks, someone had recommended that once but I guess my current batch has just too much wax in it. Been a while but I think it is a concoction with JPG, beeswax and Crisco (and some expensive olive oil). I like it as is now, once in the bullet it doesn't melt easily, not messy and stays in place for years. Sadly it clogs the rifling quickly.
Alox would be perfect but my shots will not hold a good grouping with it. Beats me as to why.\

I assume because of the temperature I usually shoot in, I will need to make something like a 60/40 mix of bees and Crisco and hope it doesn't clog. Otherwise, back to the drawing board as they say.
I guess I'll use the bees mix by volume then.

[Michael Bodner]

Well, if you're fouling out, it's telling you do have a lube problem...

If the fouling is at the breech-end of the gun, the lube is too high-temperature (ie - not melting quick enough which means too much bees wax). If you're fouling out the end of the barrel (the muzzle) then you're running out of lube too quickly. Beeswax melts at ~ 145°F. Crisco melts at ~98-110°F). I could not even venture a guess at the 'new' melting point of the two combined...

The Bees wax is only there to keep the 'real' lube from melting too quickly, mostly outside the gun (ie in your box or pouch).

Perhaps you should try a mixture of less bees wax (30-40% max) and see how it works. Simply put, you need to carefully handle your rounds once lubricated. They aint' bullet proof once they've been lubed (Sorry, couldn't resist...)

-Mike

[Maillemaker]

I make mine by melting the Crisco in a measuring cup. Whatever the amount is in the cup, melt in enough beeswax until you have doubled the amount.

So if you have one cup of melted Crisco in the cup, add melted beeswax until you end up with 2 cups.

I have made and shot the 1862 US Ordnance Manual lube recipe of 1 part tallow to 8 parts beeswax. This makes for a quite stiff lube that is much like Playdough in consistency. I found that shooting period style 3-groove expanding balls (RCBS-500M) with this lube I could pretty much shoot indefinitely in one session without issue in a 3-band Enfield with 1:72 twist and progressive depth rifling (Whitacre barrel).

Once I discovered this I concluded that making a soft, gooey lube was probably not necessary.

The British ultimately settled on 100% beeswax, sometimes with a tiny bit of mineral spirits added.

As for sizing, I had heard that a possible drawback to sizing after lubing is that the lube forms a thin film over the bullet as it is sized so you will end up with a slightly undersized bullet than what you might get if you sized without lube. But as long as you end up with the size you need, who cares?

I personally size with a Lyman Lubrisizer which size and then injects lube into the grease grooves.

Steve

[Greg Ogdan 110th OVI]

Why reinvent the wheel?! MCM on the outside and melted Crisco in the base. Quick, easy, and DONE. Now, quit messing around and go fishing or grab a beer.

[bobanderson]

I have used this lube for about 15 years. It was given to me by a 1000 yard black powder cartridge rifle shooter. A sign your lube is working is when you see that nice grease star on the crown of your barrel.

8 oz beeswax (liquid measure or by weight, doesn't matter)
8 oz pure Neatsfoot oil (not the compound, buy it on eBay or a saddlery)
1 bar of Neutrogena soap (available from drug stores and pharmacies. Also Target and Meijer)
A few shavings from a bar of Ivory soap (this prevents the ingredients from separating as they cool. If you skip this, your lubrisizer sticks will look like a parfait.)

Melt together and stir well. The soaps will melt last. Continue to stir while the mixture cools (until it starts to harden on the side of your pot.) From this point, I pour it into home made moulds to produce sticks for my Lubrisizer. I'm sure you can use this to pan lube as well, but I'd be concerned about cooking the moisture out of the mixture with repeated reheating.

This concoction works great in winter and summer. Also makes a great top cylinder lube for your revolver. I've also used it for smokeless powder pistol rounds with great results.

One last note. Over the years, I've noticed that the best lube comes from beeswax that still has all of the little parts of bee wings, feet, etc in it. Must make the bullets "fly" better.

Good luck.

[tackdriver]

Yes, Im pretty sure mine must have WAY to much wax in it. I believe it coated the entire barrel after a couple dozen rounds. Up to that point it shot quite well. I just made up a batch of 60/40 bees/lard (by volume). It dried harder than I expected. I thought it was going to be a very soft and make a mess outta my ammo box.

Can't wait to try it out. Might be a while as it's a 100 mile one way drive out to the 104' desert... But "soon".

As usual, thx for the input!

Ivory soap? Betcha it smells real Purdy after firing!

[jonk]

Mixing beeswax with anything is strange. It always seems harder than it is. My personal feeling is that the two never really combine initially, that the wax has a crystalline structure and it holds tiny globs of the crisco inside of them. With repeated melting or extrusion through a lube sizer, these crystalline lattices break down and suddenly what was a hard lube is gooey and needs more wax added... and just a little bit and it is rock hard again.

In any case, I moved on from beeswax and crisco as I found it melted too easily in the hot sun and dried out too much. Accuracy wise it was also a little worse than some other lubes I tried, but only just. If you want to keep playing with it, I agree, try some olive oil to thin it out.

[Hal]

I'm using 50/50 beeswax and olive oil (By volume). Yeah, it's a little soft in warm weather, but it hasn't melted and run off. Using Swiss powder and this lube, I get no leading and no hard fouling and it cleans up VERY easily. I see guys brushing their bore between events and getting dry powdery residue out. Mine is still soft and would make a gooey mess on the brush. I use patches, and it only takes a couple before it's getting pretty clean. Clean enough for between events, anyway.

As for where to get beeswax affordably, see if you have an apiary in your area. I do, and beeswax is something like $2 or $3 a pound. I saw some in a catalog the other day that was something like $3 per OUNCE! I guess somebody must buy it from them, but I don't know who.

[jonk]

For those from Ohio or PA or such too, if there are any Amish in your area- or for that matter anyone who sells homemade farm raised honey- they probably will have some on hand at a decent price.

Buddy of mine is in the cleanout business. Family passes away, kids don't want to clean out the house, they hire someone to make it all go away, and, if there is enough value to the goods, to pay the family some small amount for the stuff. So he was cleaning out an Amish farmhouse that the kids didn't want... they had gotten out of that life and moved into the modern world. In the barn, after everything else was gone, he found two wheels of beeswax, about 10 lb each. Filthy dirty, just stacked there, raw wax with bits of junk still in it. Family said "just get rid of it." He took them both, knowing what I do, and sold them to me at a very reasonable price. I think $50 for all 20 pounds.

Yeah, I had to melt it all down in a big pot. Double boiler of course. Then strain it through a mesh to get the big stuff out, then an old pair of nylons to get out most of the fines. No it isn't food or even candle grade, but it does fine for bullet lube.

I suspect what you see online at such high prices is highly refined. Look for grade 2 or 3 or whatever they call it. You don't need perfectly hygenic clean stuff for bullet lube, just stuff that's fairly roughly strained so there is no big pieces of junk in it.