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View Full Version : All you pistoleros, POA vs. POI?



Swede68
10-24-2009, 08:29 AM
Just thought I´d ask this question here, since you were so extremely helpful regarding my purchase of an original CW carbine (Smith) and what I needed to make it go "boom".

I´ve been shooting percussion revolvers for some 20 years now, almost exclusively originals in varying condition (when I started out I was 18, and poor, all I could afford was real junk really, but it worked).

I find that on almost every original percussion revolver I´ve shot, (from my recollection I believe the same to be true about the replicas too) hits anywhere from 10 to 20 inches higher than point of aim at 25m (roughly 27 Yards).

I can understand how the wear of the frontsight would raise the POI this much. But not all guns have had such wear on the frontsight, some of them have even had the frontsight replaced with a brand new one.
I sighted in a couple of buddies antique/original Remington NM Army´s this spring, and found that for both guns to hit to POA, I would have needed to raise the frontsight to a total height of half an inch! That would just look silly, wouldn´t it?
If the same was true for a Colt m1851 Navy with its thin brass post, the sight would be extremely voulnerable for any contact.
But I have predominantly used .44 calibre revolvers, and don´t remember if the .36´s I´ve shot have the same problem?

I try to use powdercharges similar (but slightly beneath) what would have been considered a "service load" back in the day. For a .44 calibre, that would be somewhere between 28 and 30 grains of BP.
I use round ball (soft lead) only.

So, the question is, how do you guys resolve this? Tips on your techniques would be greatly aprecciated.
Do you have the same experience?
Is the situation the same with .31 or .36 calibre handguns?
Were the guns sighted in at another distance (for instance 50 yards as opposed to the 27 yards I´m shooting from), and is this the reason for the high POI.
Were they sighted in with a pointed bullet rather than round ball? (but a heavier bullet usually raises the POI at 27 yards, so that doesn´t seem to make sense!?)

As I said, I´ve lived with this problem for many years now, and I can live with it forever if there´s no solution to the problem. I´ve won my clubs annual BP revolver championship for the last 16 years, except for one second place and one third, even though I´ve sometimes had to aim outside of the target both beneath it and to the side! So I´m not that bad of a shot. But it would be nice to sight in one revolver to hit to POA once and for all, and be done with it!

Your thoughts would be greatly aprecciated!

Regards!
Anders Olsson

Mike McDaniel
10-24-2009, 06:54 PM
The original revolvers were sighted in for about 75 yards. Most shooters in MLAIC competition use a higher front sight and a powder charge of about 15 grains, with Cream of Wheat (farina) as a filler.

John Holland
10-24-2009, 09:20 PM
Swede68,

Mike is quite correct. Many years ago I competed with an original 1858 Remington revolver. In the course of sighting it in, I found the original front sight was POA at 75 yards with service type loads. These were combat arms, and you didn't want to be only 25m away fom your enemy!

John Holland

Swede68
10-25-2009, 03:45 AM
Okey, thanks guys. Not much to do then but raise the frontsight and/or use less powder. Using less powder is so boring though! :lol:

Again, thanks!

Best regards!
Anders Olsson

J Weber 4114V
10-25-2009, 08:08 AM
The old story I heard was they were sighted for 75 yd so when mounted you would pull revolver at 100yd aim and fire all rounds left handed.Holster pistol.Change reins to left hand,Then draw saber to engage enemy. This is all done at a gallop.The 75 yd would be a average range of shots fired
Anyway it sounds plausible.

FlinchJerk
10-27-2009, 08:33 AM
Shooting an original Model 1861 Remington .44 (German silver cone front sight, 6 safety notches, exposed barrel threads); nice bore, clean chambers....6 o'clock hold, sight tip in the very bottom of the frame groove/sight: usually shoots a decent group, with a lateral spread sometimes from shakey shooter.

1.) service charge of 28 grs. FFg, roundball: 10"-12" inches high.

2.) charge of 18 grs. FFg, 10 grs. cream of wheat, roundball: 10"-12" high

3.) charge of 9 grs. FFg, 19 grs. cream of wheat, roundball: 10"-12" inches high

The gun is overall atticy patina brown and its collector value far exceeds shooter value, so I won't mess with the front sight. When I shoot paper, I just aim 10"-12" low. A false aiming point can work with paper targets; a bit trickier (for me) for pigeons & tiles. I have not shot team with it. Revolver team just takes soooo lonnnngggg to go through.

Dean Nelson
1st Maryland Infantry, CSA, N-SSA

descent:
Private Alston Houston, Co. H, 30th Virginia Infantry; the "Sparta Greys"
Private Andrew Jackson Schroll, Co. E, 149th Illinois Infantry

Swede68
10-27-2009, 03:06 PM
Thanks Dean!
That´s interesting that you see no (or little anyway) difference in POI between as little as 9grains and 28grains, but I suppose the distance is too short to make a difference. I´ve pretty much allways used a "service charge", because I find it more fun too shoot that way.

J Weber, thanks. That story makes sense.

As I said, it´s really no problem. Since I allways shoot my competitions from the same distance at at the same type of target, holding beneath the black on the target is very accurate. It´s when one has to aim outside of the target that it becomes a problem, since it´s a lot harder to see the frontsight and groove against the backstop.

Anders Olsson