Ballards?????

[Charlie Hahn]

I have a basic question. Just what models can we use? I don't see a SAC sheet, and am looking for some guidance.

Thanks

Charlie Hahn

[Eddie Bruner, 12222]

Military configured Carbines and Rifles. 44, 46, and 56 cal. SAC does show approved centerfire conversions.

[RangerFrog]

Charlie,

If I understood John Holland correctly, it would be possible to use as late an action as the Merrimack or even the Brown action, so long as the barrel and stock configuration conformed to the military type. There was some discussion on this board about 6 months or so ago over which calibers were approved for which action, but I'm not sure how that would apply to the makes that were not CW period manufactured anyway. BTW, I don't think there is a finalized SAC spec sheet out on the Ballards yet, but I could be wrong (I have been before!) :wink:

Maybe John will see this and chime in.

Froggie Green

[Eddie Bruner, 12222]

Correct, you can use post-war manufactured, as long as they are Military configured carbines or rifles.

[Bob Seng, 10979]

Charlie,

There are currently 6 different Ballard sheets used by Sac. Try getting ahold of a SAC member in your region and they will help you out. If not I can send them to you but I have a feeling the big kahuna ( John Holland) will see this and get them to you also.

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

Military Ballard talk can be trickey depending on the receivers size and shape. Here is a short list of Ballard nomenclature you will need to know and use when you talk about them. Receiver tang or no tang / Big frame or small frame / Rounded receiver or octoganl / Barrel contour & length
Before you purchase one for shooting in the N-SSA ask for SAC advice. One more thing LOOK closley for cracks in the receiver.

[John Holland]

See the Small Arms Column I wrote for the Skirmish Line, Vol. 52, Issue 4, 2007.

Briefly:

No. 1: The Ballard Civil War Carbine. Produced by Ball & Williams, and chambered in .44 Ballard.

No. 2: The Ballard Half Stock Rifle. This is also by Ball & Williams. This arm has a 30” octagon to round rifle barrel, in .44 Ballard caliber, mounted on a Carbine receiver.

No. 3: The Civil War Ballard Rifle, aka Kentucky Ballard Rifle. Again by Ball & Williams, in .46 Ballard caliber, also contracted for by the State of Kentucky and so marked on top of the receiver.

No. 4: The Dwight, Chapin & Co. Rifles and Carbines. This was a sub-contract let out by Merwin & Bray, who controlled the manufacturing and sales of the Ball & Williams rifles and carbines, all are cambered in .56-56.

No. 5: The R. Ball & Co. Carbine. This carbine was produced from mid-1865 to late 1866. It is in dual ignition, and utilized surplus round top Civil War rifle model receivers with tang straps. It has a full round barrel, with the octagonal part of the barrel having been eliminated, chambered in .44 Ballard.

No. 6: The Merrimac Arms & Mfg. Co. Carbine. This is also a scarce carbine, again with only about 200 being produced from early 1867 to late 1868, chambered in .44 Ballard.

No. 7: The Brown Mfg. Co. Rifle. This was the last company to produce a Ballard that resembled the Civil War models. The rifle manufactured by Brown Mfg. Co. in 1869 was actually produced on the same machinery as the Civil War Kentucky Ballard rifle. The caliber is the same, .46 Ballard.

Important Recap:

With the exception of the removable firing pin unit in the Brown-Ballard, all conversions to center fire are destructive! There are several “Production Approved Processes” for center fire conversions listed in the Approved Arms and Process List. If you convert a rim fire arm to center fire yourself, and it has a floating firing pin, the firing pin must be spring loaded to keep it retracted. You must also submit it to the Small Arms Committee to get an Individual Approval Card. If you have the conversion done by someone who has an approved process, then no SAC card is required. If you do a center fire conversion yourself by putting a spike on the hammer, you still need a SAC card. Once again, unless you use an individual who has an approved process, a SAC card is required. All Approved Processes require the approved person’s identifying mark on the unit so converted.

By redoing most of the article from the Skirmish Line....would that be "Taking a Mulligan...."?

John Holland
Chairman, Small Arms Committee
Staff Writer, Skirmish Line

[RangerFrog]

Thanks, John. And I don't consider providing information published even two years ago to noobies who ask for it "taking a Mulligan." I consider it a valuable public service and appreciate it greatly. Now if I can just find out how to access the SAC card or spec sheet on the Brown and find out if my sporter receiver shell can be brought into line to pass muster as a military rifle... Green

Froggie

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

I don't know what I was thinking, not mentioning Johns excellent Skirmish Line article. Use my list of characteristics and Johns article in conversation to determine what type of arm you run across.

[RangerFrog]

Public thanks to Bruce and John for sending more information to me. I look forward to seeing you guys again in the Spring and sitting down to discuss some details in ... well ... detail! Green

One question that comes up immediately is whether an orphan receiver from one manufacturer can be used to build a SAC-approved rifle is in the configuration for another manufacturer, or are we limited to building the Brown configuration on a Brown, a D Chapin configuration on a D Chapin, etc, etc? :?: Also, what about caliber from one manufacturer to the next? I'm hoping to build something for which parent brass is relatively cheap and plentiful. :?

Again, thanks to Bruce and John and indeed all who willingly and eagerly contribute from their vast stores of knowledge. It's this kind of generosity that makes this board such a great source of information for those of us on the front slope of the learning curve! :D

Regards,
Froggie

[Richard Hill]

I had my recently acquired Ball & Williams "Kentucky" Ballard rifle in .46 rimfire out for the first time this last weekend. Per John's suggestion, I converted some 44-40 WCF brass to rimfire by filling the primer pocket and redrilling the base to accept a .22 case offset to the inside edge of the 44-40 case and countersunk enough for the head of the .22 case to sit flush with the base of the 44-40 case. I used Remington .22 short ammo for the primer after pulling the bullet and dumping the powder, with 26 grains of 3F, corn meal filler and a .457 round ball. The gun shot real good considering the load was a guess and the .457 a bit small. I’ve ordered a bullet mould from NEI, and a little experimenting with loads ought to improve its already satisfactory performance. The only problem was the Remington ammo. Three out of 31 did not go off, although the primer was hit square and hard. I think anyone with a rimfire-only Ballard should consider this method before doing a permanent center fire conversion.

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

Thanks Charlie for your kind words. The Dwight, Chapin receivers are all large and rounded. From a like receiver you can make either a carbine or rifle. If you have a Brown / Merrimac receiver decide on a carbine or rifle and get the like SAC form to finish your project. The receiver drives the model you are allowed to build.
If you have any antique firearm in good condition its my personal opinion that it should stay unaltered. The exception is the new firing pin / nipple conversion for the Browns and Merrimacs, You screw out a nipple / screw in a converter and go shooting ( after a gunsmith checks it out ). The antiques that are considered in poor condition or are being brought back from parts are the ones I consider altering to skirmish with. This is just one persons opinion.

[RangerFrog]

Major bummer! Not only does my Brown receiver have the dovetail cut in the wrist for a tang sight, but it also has the octagon profile at the front over the chamber, so it is destined to remain forever in the civilian configuration. :cry:

Oh well, maybe now I can concentrate on a few of the other projects that have been hanging fire. Thanks again to all who provided input, especially John H and Bruce C. I hope we can get together @ Nationals and laugh about all of this. Green

Regards,
Charlie

[Charlie Hahn]

Thanks for all the information. I took the plunge and have purchased one of these. I have considerable work to do to be ready, but plan a visit to John and Wade in a few months.

Charlie