Smoothbore lube poll

[jonk]

In a previous post, I detailed what I'm going to try as regarding a (fairly) scientific study of different lubes in use in the N-SSA.

I don't intend that to spread to smoothbores per se, as it is a big enough project as it sits. Just for curiosity's sake though:

1. What lube (if any) do you use with sb?
2. Rasped balls or not?
3. Did you ever try other lubes, and or rasping or not?
4. Pure lead or hard lead? Hard meaning, ww, range scrap, etc.

Figure it round 4 and 5... something to do way down the road.

[Carolina Reb]

Here you go.

1. What lube (if any) do you use with sb?
~80% Bees Wax, 20% Olive Oil. Dip entire ball in melted lube, place on aluminum foil with the sprue down to cool. This leaves a flat spot on the lube coating so you know where the sprue is.

2. Rasped balls or not?
No rasp

3. Did you ever try other lubes, and or rasping or not?
Yes, didn't work any better for me, and I use this same lube for carbine, so it's easy

4. Pure lead or hard lead? Hard meaning, ww, range scrap, etc.
Hard lead, 50-50 WW/Pure, or range scrap. Seems to shoot the same for either alloy. It's the same lead I use for breechloaders.

I put 1 1/2" squares of waxed paper between the ball and powder when loading in tubes. This keeps lube from melting into the powder when it's hot out. (57 gr. of Swiss FF, by the way.)

This method shoots very well in my 1816. I've tried the rasp, alox, no lube, etc. and this shoots as well as any. The waxed paper does slow down loading slightly since you have to take it off the ball. The big advantage is that I don't have to clean between relays.

[Maillemaker]

I'm following the advice of two of our team's great smoothbore shooters. Rod Harbin has on at least two occasions shot perfect team shoots with smoothbore, never missing.

He rasps his balls between two files, and then tripple-dips his balls in Lee Alox.

I am doing the same. I also use a Mike Rouche sprue cutter to completely remove any trace of the sprue prior to rolling the balls between the files.

Here is a fixture I made for about $12 for rolling balls between files:

http://4thla.weebly.com/ball-rolling-fixture.html

I think the rasping slightly increases the diameter of the ball, but mostly provides a tooth for the alox to stick to. Without rasping, the alox will easily flake off of the ball on handling. With rasping, it does not.

I place each ball on a small piece of wax paper before stuffing into the plastic tubes. Otherwise the tube mouth tends to shave off alox, which gunks up the case and removes a ring of lube from the ball. By putting it on wax paper and pushing it into the case mouth this is avoided. At a match, after the ball has stretched out the case mouth, I remove the ball from the wax paper and seat it back in the case mouth. Since the mouth is stretched open at this point it no longer shaves the alox off the ball when you stick it back in without the paper. I do this at the bench prior to going to the line. I wouldn't want to fiddle with peeling wax paper off the balls on the line.

I'm pretty sure Rod and Chuck on our team are using a ball with more windage in their bores than I am. I have a .690 Armisport and am using a .678 ball. With the alox, my ball is so tight in the bore that it makes an air cylinder during loading and will often bounce the ball/ramrod back up the barrel when I let go of the ramrod. This slows me down in loading. I want to try a smaller ball but am currently using what came with the gun with decent results. It's on my to-do list.

Note I no longer use the super-expensive Lee Alox, but instead buy in bulk this substitute:

http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18

Note that I don't think the alox actually functions as a lube nor does it do much for fouling. I think its primary purpose is simply to reduce windage.

Steve

[devisser]

Back during the Bicentennial I was a member of Butler Rangers and we shot the 75 cal Brown Bess 75 Cal Musket. Our targets were set at 35 yards where our shoots were held at the Boons Farm Homestead in Pa. I remember some of the "experts" telling me to use a full charge. When I was convince to get a .69 cal musket I remembered the rule. More powder...the better the shot. Well that seems to work in the N-ssa with the 69 cal sm. I use 73 rains of 2 F with a lub of 90 percent beeswax, 10 percent olive oil. .....OK it is a little harder to seat the load (in cold weather, but it forms a great seal when seated. This was is the seal and if you don't mine a hard ram, this load works great in the 1842 Springfield Musket. At 25 yards you can place your rounds on the paper target at 25 year 100 percent on paper target Skirmishers never use enough powder in their loading. We are getting to be "whimps" with our loading. When I started back in the late 60's our musket load in the 50's of 3 FFF. Now we are using loads of in the 20-30's. Smooth Bore shooters, go back to the original loading's and you will shoot like our forefathers. I use 73 gr of 2 f in my smoothbore and it shoots when I aim it (well that is another problem).

[Jim Barber]

Balls shaken together in a can til they're dimpled.
Drizzled with Alox, then shaken a little more til they're lightly evenly coated.
Rolled out to dry on wax paper.

I was counseled against overdoing it with the Alox-- a light tan/brown coating is perfect.

Jim Barber
Grove City, OH

[Fire18WFD]

http://youtu.be/GzmE1j_CWdw Much quieter and more consistent than shaking in a can.

[bobanderson]

I was counseled against overdoing it with the Alox-- a light tan/brown coating is perfect.

Jim Barber
Grove City, OH

Sounds like the gospel according to St. Michael...Rouch, that is.

[jonk]

Just as an aside:

I tried the alox routine. Really thin, moderate, and thick. Always found the bore coked up after 6-8 shots, in 3 different guns, regardless.

I went to musket lube and that ended that problem. Accuracy was about the same.

I tried rasping. Didn't even dimple my hard lead balls so I gave it up.

Like I say, this is a test that's way down the road. I am intrigued by trying a service charge of 2f though.

[bobanderson]

Always found the bore coked up after 6-8 shots, in 3 different guns...

I found barrel fouling was more affected by the brand of powder, not the lube. 3f Goex would coke up after about 6 shots. Swiss 3f shot a bit cleaner but still wouldn't let me complete a 10 shot string, including sighters. When I tried Goex Express 3f, now sold as Old Eynsford, and a very thin coat of Lee Liquid Alox, I was able to shoot 24 times without cleaning.

I also noticed a fouling ring in both of my smoothbores. With Goex, it was about 6" from the muzzle. It was so consistently in the same place, I thought I had a bad spot in my barrel. When I went to Swiss, the fouling was concentrated just above the chamber. After switching to the improved Goex, that buildup went away, leading to the longer strings.

Keep plugging away, Jon.

[Mike Rouch 07791]

I've had no problems with fouling in my s'bore. I think it has a lot to do with ball to bore size. I use a thin coat of alox dimpled balls in can,
and ball dia. .010 to .012 under bore size. 52 gr. 3f goex. Use whatever makes you happy.


Mike

[Michael Bodner]

Mike,

How many shot can you get off before the barrel starts to foul? I'm sure y'all don't take many in the team matches - But do you fire off 10-rounds in Individual competition with the aforementioned lube/charge/size?

Thanks!!

-Mike

[Mike Rouch 07791]

When I shoot individuals I shoot 12 - 14 rounds with no problem. I'm sure at some point it will foul. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Sounds like one of Bootsies lines.


Mike

[Maillemaker]

I found barrel fouling was more affected by the brand of powder, not the lube. 3f Goex would coke up after about 6 shots. Swiss 3f shot a bit cleaner but still wouldn't let me complete a 10 shot string, including sighters. When I tried Goex Express 3f, now sold as Old Eynsford, and a very thin coat of Lee Liquid Alox, I was able to shoot 24 times without cleaning.

I also noticed a fouling ring in both of my smoothbores. With Goex, it was about 6" from the muzzle. It was so consistently in the same place, I thought I had a bad spot in my barrel. When I went to Swiss, the fouling was concentrated just above the chamber. After switching to the improved Goex, that buildup went away, leading to the longer strings.

Keep plugging away, Jon.

I've found differences in powder make a big difference in fouling also. Not with smoothbore, but when trying load workups with the Moose Wilkinson. I could not get more than 2-3 shots off with Shuetzen powder but when I switched to Goex I could get 10 or more before fouling became an issue.

With regards to smoothbore, I am shooting 70 grains 3F Goex, and I also can feel a fouling ring when cleaning. I have not noted where in the barrel it is; I'd guess about half way down?


How many shot can you get off before the barrel starts to foul? I'm sure y'all don't take many in the team matches - But do you fire off 10-rounds in Individual competition with the aforementioned lube/charge/size?

I have taken to shooting 2 individual targets in the same course of fire, so I get off 10 shots without issue. I generally shoot less during team events. Especially when you shoot with the Forrest Escort! :) Except for the pigeon board, you're lucky if you can get off 3 shots when shooting with them!

Steve

[Michael Bodner]

Thanks Mike... Must be the powder... Gotta try it.

[Jim Barber]

Sounds like the gospel according to St. Michael...Rouch, that is.

Yes, how on earth did you guess?! When I heed the gospel, I break targets.

Jim B.

[jonk]

I've had no problems with fouling in my s'bore. I think it has a lot to do with ball to bore size. I use a thin coat of alox dimpled balls in can,
and ball dia. .010 to .012 under bore size. 52 gr. 3f goex. Use whatever makes you happy.


Mike

Well, that's verbatim what I was doing... same charge, same diameter, same coat of alox, and initially with dimpled balls... just shows how many variables there are in these guns.