Sharps Carbine 1859/1863

[Sauerfan]

I own two original Sharps Carbines. Actually 3 if you include the 50-70 conversion. But two are percussion. The chamber bushing cannot be removed with a removal tool I purchased. Been in there too long. I have fired both Rifles and they seem to fire with no real noticeable or obvious gas leaking from block to barrel gap. The bushings cannot seem to be removed. If possible, I would like to remove and clean them up so as for the part to function as designed. I'm sure they have been in so long they may be impossible to remove. I hope not. Any Sharps experts out there who may have a suggestion to help me. Do not wish to do ANY damage to my Rifles to accomplish this mission. Both Rifles have been in combat and show obvious use. They have all original parts from what I can tell with my limited knowledge, but I'm willing to try any reasonable suggestion. HELP.....HELP. I need help.

[spadegrip]

Why are you trying to remove the bushings? They were not meant to move. They were set at the factory and left that way. The seal is formed by the movement of the Conant gas check. That is the plate on the face of the breech block. If you want anything to move that is the part. See if you can carefully lift the edges of the plate or work the plate loose from either the top or bottom being careful not to break or shear off the flange on the back of the plate. It's helpful to soak the breech block in penetrating oil to loosen it. The gas check works by back pressure forcing the gas check against the bushing in the barrel. If you are not seeing gas leaking as you are shooting it now, I would not be too concerned. I would suggest you clean the gas plate and the breech block completely prior to putting it away. That means removing the plate and the clean out screw, and removing the nipple then soaking the block in hot water to remove crud inside and out. They are a lot if fun to shoot once you get the hang of it. I shoot original 1859, and 1863 rifles and an original 1863 carbine in N-SSA competition.

[Michael T.]

Need to ask this question.... did you have an O Ring job done on them?? If so I would suggest Kroil Oil. plug or seal the firing channel...piece of plastic tubing bent over will work.. Fill the barrel with the Kroil and let it sit for a few days.... My opinion Mike Hall

[John Holland]

I have only ever seen one original Sharps M-1863 Rifle that was still in unfired condition. I had the opportunity to examine it at my leisure and the chamber sleeve slid out of the chamber quite smoothly. It was snug and with no slop whatsoever. I should have purchased rather than steer a friend to it, because I would still have it.....he resold it!

[Harley1247]

I own two original Sharps Carbines. Actually 3 if you include the 50-70 conversion. But two are percussion. The chamber bushing cannot be removed with a removal tool I purchased. Been in there too long. I have fired both Rifles and they seem to fire with no real noticeable or obvious gas leaking from block to barrel gap. The bushings cannot seem to be removed. If possible, I would like to remove and clean them up so as for the part to function as designed. I'm sure they have been in so long they may be impossible to remove. I hope not. Any Sharps experts out there who may have a suggestion to help me. Do not wish to do ANY damage to my Rifles to accomplish this mission. Both Rifles have been in combat and show obvious use. They have all original parts from what I can tell with my limited knowledge, but I'm willing to try any reasonable suggestion. HELP.....HELP. I need help.

Don't laugh, try using coca cola. I learned this one over 50 yrs. ago when I was a mechanic. My daughter also ran into a drain problem and while waiting to hear from the pluber she got the drain unclogged the plumber finally calle back and told her the same thing. Use coke in your sink drain. Cork the muzzle, stand the gun on the muzzle and pour in the coke. The gun was design so when things wear you could move the insert back into the plate. They would not have designed the chamber this way if that were not the case. Good luck if u haven't already got to remove it.

[Charlie Hahn]

Howdy,

I do not doubt John's recount of the Sharps he handled.

I have remove a bucket of these, and when I am lucky enough to have an intact sleeve they are line to line in size, plus a little, (light press).

You might get lucky with soaking with some of the liquids noted, (never tried the Coke thing, but I have seen stranger things work from the old machinists tool box). Once you try these, and if you are not successful give me a call.

Charlie

[Claypipe]

Why are you trying to remove the bushings? They were not meant to move. They were set at the factory and left that way. The seal is formed by the movement of the Conant gas check. That is the plate on the face of the breech block. If you want anything to move that is the part. See if you can carefully lift the edges of the plate or work the plate loose from either the top or bottom being careful not to break or shear off the flange on the back of the plate. It's helpful to soak the breech block in penetrating oil to loosen it. The gas check works by back pressure forcing the gas check against the bushing in the barrel. If you are not seeing gas leaking as you are shooting it now, I would not be too concerned. I would suggest you clean the gas plate and the breech block completely prior to putting it away. That means removing the plate and the clean out screw, and removing the nipple then soaking the block in hot water to remove crud inside and out. They are a lot if fun to shoot once you get the hang of it. I shoot original 1859, and 1863 rifles and an original 1863 carbine in N-SSA competition.

The gent said that these were original Sharps Carbines. I, always, have understood that the chamber sleeves were meant to slide back upon firing. And that they were to be removed and cleaned after firing. Or did I miss something?

[geezmo]

There seems to be an obsession with modern day Sharps shooters to remove and clean this bushing, or "bouching" per the Sharps literature, every time they shoot and clean their rifle or carbine. Reread the previous posts by Spadegrip and Harley1247. The bushings were not meant to move or be removed in normal use, at least not the original guns and not by the common soldier. I don't know about the recent Italian imports. I know Pedersoli makes and sells a special tool for the purpose. Maybe their design is slightly different. I only know one person who removed a bushing from an original and it was a bear of a job. He also had to take the barrel out of the receiver as the bushing was too long to clear the opening for the breech block. So, removal was not a part of routine cleaning.

If you look at the 1859 and 1864 Sharps manual/catalog all it says about cleaning is "To CLEAN THE ARM, relieve the lever key from pressure, by throwing down the lever guard, and then take out the key, which is replaced with the guard in the same position. Remove the slide and dissolve the hard substance with water if any has collected in its cavity, taking care not to use any metallic tool in the operation, by which the slide, or gas-ring, might be injured. The bore is easily washed, or cleaned with a wet brush, after which, wipe it quite dry, and oil it, and the slide, with sperm oil, tallow or other pure oil, free from salt and acids." The only parts intended to routinely move or be removed were the breechblock or "slide" and the Conant gas check or "gas-ring".

For an explanation of the bushing, refer to Frank Selller's book "Sharps Firearms". On page 343 in the chapter on tools he says "Another of the unknown tools during the early percussion period of the Sharps rifles is the "bouching clamp and rod." This tool was used for adjusting the head space of the guns. It was inserted into the front of the chamber and engaged the front end of the bouching. The breechblock was closed after the insertion of the bouching clamp. The bouching rod was inserted through the muzzle and held the bouching clamp tight against the walls of the chamber while the bouching rod was tapped, forcing the bouching back tight against the face of the breechblock." This was apparently only done as an adjustment as parts wore and must have been done by armorers with the skills and tools and only as needed.

If you have a repro and are having problems with cleaning, gas leaks and action locking up, I would consult Charlie Hahn and have him do one of his breech jobs. If you have an original and are having gas leaks, see if Charlie could make this "bouching" adjustment, otherwise, I would leave it alone and find another shooter.

Good luck and good shooting,
Barry S.

[Maillemaker]

So there appears to be two different camps of opinion on whether the bushing is designed to float as part of the gas sealing mechanism or not.

Barry provides some convincing documentation in favor of the at least semi-fixed bushing, with some provision to move it for headspacing.

Any other info to throw into the mix here?

Steve

[Smokepole50]

My opinion is that the original design had the barrel bushing being forced back from chamber pressure against the breech block pressure plate moving forward from chamber pressure when the gun was fired. The concept was good and if smokeless powder had been around then and the gun strong enough to handle it then the system would most likely have worked well as designed. However, holy black was all they had and the short comings of the barrel bushing design were over looked due to the war. They simply adjusted the barrel bushing when needed back against the pressure plate. I'm sure this was only done when rifles found there way back to a depot repair facility and probably not done that much at all. Head space would have been checked and adjusted, stocks replaced, etc and the weapon re-issued to the next blue boy fresh from training. The moving barrel bushing was a good concept but it was not a practical design for a weapon of war, especially one that used black powder.

[bobanderson]

Contact Larry Flees on the 111th OVI to have a Sam Dobbin style gas check job done. Larry will install a new fixed chamber sleeve and an ampco bronze gas check plate that is held tight by a neoprene rubber o-ring.
The result is a leak proof seal that you can shoot all day long and clean easily. The o-rings are commonly available and CHEAP!
If I hadn't fallen head over heels in like with a beautiful Colt Detective Special, a friend of mine on Chiswell's Exiles wouldn't be taunting me with my slick shooting Pedersoli Sharps.
Don't worry. He'll want something else of mine some day.

[Southron Sr.]

About that "chamber bushing" found in the replica (and original) Sharps.

A few years ago I ran across an article written by a "muzzleloading expert." He had been loaned a replica Sharps to test and then write an online article about.

For whatever reason, that new Sharps he had been loaned WAS MISSING THE CHAMBER BUSHING....and he didn't know any better. Hence, when he got to the range he seated a bullet in the breech and then FILLED UP THE CHAMBER SPACE BEHIND THE BULLET WITH BLACK POWDER!

He mentioned in his article, that the "recoil was excessive."

Thank God that Sharps have a very STRONG breech to protect "experts" like that!

[Yakiman]

I have the Pedersoli removal tool - it was a waste of money. This however, works like a charm.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7769248