Parker Hale Whitworh Rifle question.

[MikeArthur]

Hey all.....How do I tell the difference between a Gibbs Parker Hale Whitworth and a first gen Parker Hale Whitworth?

thanks and Merry Christmas:cool:

Mike Arthur
Hampton Horse Artillery
Potomac Region
843 412-1992

[newrib]

Hey Mike, I do not know how the Gibbs rifles are marked. The 1st gen Parker Hale seres of rifles have a couple of things in common, The seriel # will be under 10,000, there will be a P-H stamped under the crown on the lock plate and there will be a Parker-Hale stamp on the right side of the stock. There may be some rifles out there without all those features however if a P-H musket did not have all 3 of the above I would not consider it a genuine. All the best to you !

[MikeArthur]

I've got all those and a serial number in the 300's. I too am interested in the Gibbs markings

mike. :cool:

[dbm]

For the 1st Gen P-H Whitworths I have serial numbers for around 60 now and all are below 1100. Your 300 series would best guess be from about 1980.

David

[Matt Harris]

Good morning, fellow members of the Whitworth Interest Club!

I have a First Generation English Parker Hale (serial number 102x) and a Second Generation Italian (serial number 313xx) Whitworth rifles. I have noted the following differences in the two rifles:

First Generation -

1. "PARKER-HALE LTD. BIRMINGHAM ENGLAND" is stamped on top of barrel between 2nd and 3rd barrel bands.

2. "90 GR. BLACK POWDER .451 550 GR BULLET" stamped on bottom of barrel under forestock.

3. Proof mark of two crossed swords with an "M" on the left, a "2" on the bottom, and a "C" on the right. From the Birmingham Proof Dates and Codes (available online, use (http://www.hallowellco.com/proof_date_codes.htm) or Google), this barrel was proofed in 1986.

4. Rear sight has number "1" to "4" on right side of sight, plus elevation graduations to "10" on the ladder.

5. The lockplate has the bright, vibrant colors indicative of true bone and charcoal case hardening (if you have seen a Shiloh Sharps with their optional bone and charcoal finish, you know what I mean), and is engraved with a single line on its border. There is a "P H" stamped on the bridle of the lock.

6. There is no Parker Hale Ltd. cartouche stamped on the right side of the stock. I understand that earlier First generation rifles do in fact have this cartouche, as does my First Generation Parker Hale Enfield P-53.

Second Generation -

1. "PARKER-HALE LTD. BIRMINGHAM ENGLAND" is stamped in larger font than the First Generation on top of barrel between 2nd and 3rd barrel bands.

2. "FOR BLACK POWDER ONLY" with a crown over "BP" stamped on bottom of barrel under forestock.

3. Proof marks "B I I PN" on left side of barrel under serial number. According to Italian Proof Marks and Date Codes (use (http://blackpowdertimes.com/index.php?topic=121.0) or Google), this barrel was proofed in 1997.

4. Rear sight has number "1" to "3" on right side of sight, plus elevation graduations to "10" on the ladder.

5. The lockplate lacks the bright, vibrant colors indicative of true bone and charcoal case hardening and instead appears to be the modern cyanide case hardening process, and is engraved with a double line on its border. There is no "P H" stamped on the bridle of the lock.

6. There is a Parker Hale Ltd. cartouche stamped on the right side of the stock.

My First Generation sports the excellent Mike Neumann front wind gauge and tang-mounted rear sights made specifically for the Parker Hale. My second generation has the Rex Holbrook Rear Goodwin tang-mounted sight and wind gauge front, as well as Davidson telescope mounts made by Bear Claw Trading Company which houses an old 4X Weaver rimfire scope.

Both of my Whitworths like 85 grains of Swiss 1.5FG and a Steve Brooks bullet from an adjustable custom mould that casts a .444 diameter hollow based bullet about 1.4 inch long, which weighs about 540 grains in pure lead. I patch the bullet using two layers of Southworth #9 onionskin paper. Steve made this fine mould from dimensions and photographs of original Whitworth bullets. I have experienced the best results using RWS musket caps and NO wad. I believe that hollow based bullets work best with no wad, while flat based bullets perform best when using an appropriate hard card wad. Wiping with one damp (NAPA cutting oil and distilled water mixture) followed by two dry patches is absolutely necessary if shooting with no lubrication wad.

I invite all comments and suggestions from fellow members of the Whitworth Interest Club.

Merry Christmas

Matt Harris

[MikeArthur]

I do have a first gen! May I call you with a few questions?

843 412-1992

maybe tomorrow or the weekend

mike

[Matt Harris]

Good news, Mike! Sent you a pm.

[MikeArthur]

Made in 1980. Parker Hale Parker Hale.
sn. 3xx.

Mike

843 412-1992