Pedersoli P58 Enfield

[Tony_p]

Hello All,

I am in need of some expert advice. I picked up a new Pedersoli P58 Enfield about a year ago and I am having much difficulty finding a bullet that works will anything near acceptable accuracy. I do cast but I only have a couple Molds that are throwing .580 minies which is way to big for this gun. So I decided to try a few minies from sources to decide what mold to buy.

1st I try some lyman 575213av from founding fathers. These where not sized and seem to be at around .575. On a clean bore the bullet dropped almost all the way to the powder charge without a ramrod. I was able to hit the black consistently out to 50 yards.
Then

I tried some 575213av and 575213OS from track of the wolf 50 grams of FFFG. Sized to .577 very tight in the bore requiring a starter. Keyholes about 50 %, no accuracy to speak of.

From Patrick Kaboskey.
.577 Rapine 575460 60 grains FFG - (Starter required)Keyholes about 6 out out 10 times
.576 Rapine 575460 60 grains FFG - Same as above 576 seems about right for this bore, requires a little ramrod pressure on a clean bore.
.576 PH 58560 60 grains FFG-this seemed to be the best bullet from Pat but 2 out of 10 where key-holing and accuracy was marginal. >
.577 PH 58560 60 grains FFG (Starter required)about the same as above.

based on my initial results that where almost satisfactory for me I am thinking that I have done something to the bore of the gun causing all the keyholes. There are a few scratches about a half inch in the barrel from the ram rod but I do not see any issues with the crown. So my question is where do I go from here?

[Fred Jr]

Hi,

I shoot a PH 58 with a Harmon-Large barrel so it is not the same as yours. How ever some things may be the same. Keyholes are usually the result of one of two causes. One the bullet is too small and not expanding enough to get a good grip on the rifling. Second is usually due to the lead being too hard. I had very good results with the PH style bullet with 40gr FFF. They were sized to 576. Also have had good success with the Hodgdon bullet but had to up the charge to 45gr of FFF. I cast my own and use only pure virgin lead. If you would like I could send you a few of the Hodgdon sized to 576.

Nothing here is tested just my own experience from playing the game for 44 years!

Good luck and have fun,
Fred

[jonk]

I would like to send you some RCBS Hodgdon bullets with modified NE trader core pin bases sized to .576.... try over 48 gr of 3f. Perhaps also some 315 gr mine wadcutters and 500 gr Lee wadcutters. PM me info if interested and I will be happy to send like 10 of each, cast from known soft lead.

[John Holland]

Accepting that the barrel is not the issue, and being a new Pedersoli I will go along with that premise.

Using a bullet that requires a starter should group very tight.

Using a bullet that is too loose should also group, but very wide.

None of them should keyhole unless the lead is too hard, with one exception.

The only other thing that could cause keyholes is lube, which has not been mentioned. What are you using for lube and how, and where on the bullet, are you applying it?

[gjwarren]

I've had such an Enfield. Lyman 575231 new style Minnie unsized with cannules dipped in tamarack (bees wax & alox), slightly thinned with cisco shot perfect every time with 50g xxx goex, clean or dirty. Bullet almost dropped clean, ramrod slight press dirty. Perfect for skirmishing, but too long for me an the straight stock bruises my cheekbone. I still have it almost 20 years. Beautiful wood, so it's on the wall. Dropped 1 deer with it.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

I had an interesting experience with keyholing after going to a new lot of 3f powder. Even adjusting by volume with the new lot, I was getting occasional keyholes with the Hodgdon. All other factors except powder were unchanged. So I thinned the skirt on my bullets to about .065" and solved the problem. The new lot of powder is apparently more consistent and doesn't burn as hot. The only drawback that I have found with the thinner skirt is more casting defects. Be aware that if you thin the skirt you will reduce the bullet weight as well.

[Maillemaker]

The Pedersoli P58 has a faster twist rate than other Enfields. It is 1:48 instead of 1:72. I have been told that this requires a heavier bullet.

One time I got a clover-leaf group shooting the P58 with the RCBS-500M bullet and 60 grains 2F Goex powder, and it seems to do OK.

I was told the Lyman 575213PH was ideal for this gun, but my bullet dropped at .575, and my Pedersoli's maximum fit is .578. So I had a custom core pin for a Rapine 577460 made that gives it a shallow cavity like the 575213PH.

Here is a target with the RCBS-500M:

http://i.imgur.com/tyqawMM.jpg

Here are targets with the modified Rapine:

http://imgur.com/a/SrA2x

I have not yet glass bedded the barrel.

At this point the accuracy is not quite as good as what I get with my Whitacre barrel in my Eurorarms P53 using an RCBS-Hodgdon bullet and 48 grains 3F Goex. Perhaps the shoter barrel length will make a speedier rifle to shoot in competition, but right now it consumes more lead and powder for not quite as good a performance.

Steve

[tackdriver]

Not sure about the twist rate you have with these bullets, I believe you'd read my past posts here but once I switched from Minie balls to Wilkinson and Maynard bullet shapes my accuracy problems went away. Now I have no one else but myself to blame when my shots miss the entire target..

[tackdriver]

Just looked at your target pix. You're NOT happy with that grouping? Man, I'd take that anyday, even with my new bullets.

[Maillemaker]

Just looked at your target pix. You're NOT happy with that grouping? Man, I'd take that anyday, even with my new bullets.

At 50 yards, off a bench, my competition guns will blow a single ragged hole in the paper the size of a silver dollar.

This is what my Richmond Carbine will do with an RCBS-Hodgdon bullet and 44 grains 3F Goex. Hoyt Barrel:

http://i.imgur.com/RRV89ZI.jpg

This is what my Euroarms P53 with Whitacre barrel will do off a bench at 50 and 100 yards:

http://imgur.com/a/GKyxp

Steve

[Tony_p]

I also have a 1980s Euroarms with the factory Barrel that shoot very well with a .579 minie. I was able to work up a very good load with it with the first cheap mold I purchases. This rifle is a different story.....







The Pedersoli P58 has a faster twist rate than other Enfields. It is 1:48 instead of 1:72. I have been told that this requires a heavier bullet.

One time I got a clover-leaf group shooting the P58 with the RCBS-500M bullet and 60 grains 2F Goex powder, and it seems to do OK.

I was told the Lyman 575213PH was ideal for this gun, but my bullet dropped at .575, and my Pedersoli's maximum fit is .578. So I had a custom core pin for a Rapine 577460 made that gives it a shallow cavity like the 575213PH.

Here is a target with the RCBS-500M:

http://i.imgur.com/tyqawMM.jpg

Here are targets with the modified Rapine:

http://imgur.com/a/SrA2x

I have not yet glass bedded the barrel.

At this point the accuracy is not quite as good as what I get with my Whitacre barrel in my Eurorarms P53 using an RCBS-Hodgdon bullet and 48 grains 3F Goex. Perhaps the shoter barrel length will make a speedier rifle to shoot in competition, but right now it consumes more lead and powder for not quite as good a performance.

Steve

[Tony_p]

PM Send to Fred and Jonk

[tackdriver]

At 50 yards, off a bench, my competition guns will blow a single ragged hole in the paper the size of a silver dollar.

This is what my Richmond Carbine will do with an RCBS-Hodgdon bullet and 44 grains 3F Goex. Hoyt Barrel:

http://i.imgur.com/RRV89ZI.jpg

This is what my Euroarms P53 with Whitacre barrel will do off a bench at 50 and 100 yards:

http://imgur.com/a/GKyxp

Steve

Sigh.........

[Maillemaker]

Sigh.........

It's all in the barrel, I think. And in the lock, to some extent.

I have come to the conclusion that pretty much if you want the ultimate accuracy you'll need a custom gun to do it.

This is not to say that none of the standard commercial offerings will ever give good, or even great accuracy. If you watch Balázs Németh (capnball) on YouTube shoot some of the stock Pedersoli guns he gets great groups. But I think he is/was a spokesman of sorts for Pedersoli also, and perhaps they sent him some "pick of the litter" guns. Also he is a medal-winning shooter himself and so a great shot.

But I now own 5 black powder long arms and 7 black powder revolvers, and none of my out-of-the-box guns rival the two I have with custom barrels. My Armisport 1842 comes closest but it is glass bedded. But of course that's a smoothbore and I guess that's a lot less tricky to get right than a rifled gun.

And there is also some psychology at play here. I find that when I "trust the gun", I shoot a lot better. When you have confidence that the gun shoots where you point it, and you just trust your sights and shoot, you do a lot better than when you have no confidence in the sights and you are constantly second-guessing and trying to adjust on-the-fly.

Steve

[Muley Gil]

My first skirmish gun was a Zoli Zouave, bought new from Mike Yeck in October 1969.

With no glass bedding and just a slight trigger tuning (4 lb pull), using as cast, no sizing, Lyman 575213 Minies over 45 grains of DuPont or Goex FFFg, it would shoot three shot cloverleafs measuring 1", at 50 yards, all day long.

[jonk]

My Euroarms got a lot better after Bobby deepened the rifling and I glass bedded it and tuned the lock. Not quite as good as my custom built Fayetteville but easily a solid A team gun as a backup.

[John H]

Hi All,
Where can I purchase the modified NE trader core pin base for the Hodgdon mold ?
Thanks,
John

[Francis J. Miller Jr, 02601]

John,

You can get the deep core pin for the Hodgdon bullet mould from John DeWald at:


North East Trade Co.
1980 John Brady Drive
Muncy, PA 17756
Phone: 570-546-2061
Fax: 570-546-2717
http://northeasttradeco.com

Sincerely,