confused with results and would like suggestions

[kowdok]

I purchased an original Smith about 2 yrs ago, mostly for a new member, but he never bought it. I worked up the load using plastic tubes, 30 grs 3F Goex, small amt. of filler, and a Romano Maynard bullet sized to .516. Had excellent results at both 50 and 100 yds. I mostly shoot it for practice and loan it to new members. The only thing I have done differently is that I de-leaded it last week. Shot it yesterday starting out at 100 yds., It would shoot 1 to 3 shots to pt. of aim, but would then climb to 6 to 8 ins. high and 2 to 4 ins. right. This was extremely consistent, I cleaned it 5 or 6 times and it would always do this. I changed to a thinner washer under the sight and from a bench rest I could put as many as I wanted into the black after the barrel became dirty. I moved to 50 yds. and got the same results. After 1 or 2 shots the bullet climbed about 2 ins. high but then remained extremely consistent after that. I changed pt of aim and proceeded to put 11 shots dead center into the black. What's going on? Wrong bullet? Wrong load? Wrong size? I would even consider operator error if I had not repeated it a dozen times. What chall ( deep southern for y'all ) think?
"Kowdok"

[Scooby]

Not an expert here, but it sounds like maybe the lube from the first few shots is not enough to coat the bore all the way to the muzzle. From my experience a heavier bullet or a slower bullet will impact higher at our distances because it is spending just a little more time traveling through the barrel than a lighter faster bullet, because there is more time for the recoil to raise the muzzle before the bullet exits. Your bullet may be slowing down a little where the lube burns out. I guess live with it or try a thin coat of paste lube in the bore, applied just before trigger time?

[John Holland]

I think the real question is why did it suddenly change after being de-leaded?

[efritz]

Although I've never de-leaded any of mine, personally I don't think it's anything to worry about. I shoot 8-9 different guns at Nat's individual targets and never trust the 1st few in each as being the "sweet" spot. In fact many skirminshers will dump the very 1st shot in the back stop. Not even on target for fear of hitting on scoring target when aiming at the sighter. No matter what, never trust a clean gun to shoot where it's sighted in for. Just one of the quirks of the sport.

[Lou Lou Lou]

Demonic possession. Send it to me for purification, you will have it back in about a year

[Jim Brady Knap's Battery]

How many times has the first sighter shot from a clean bore go smack into the center of the X ring? I always feel like I should just stop and re-enter because there's nowhere to go but down.



Jim Brady
2249V
Knap's Battery

[MR. GADGET]

So how did you delead it?

Wonder if there is some marking or tooling that needs to fill in or slick up before it goes back to shooting.
Maybe the gun liked the lead and was slicker leaded then unleaded..

[kowdok]

I de-lead with "Shooters Choice-Delead". Brush it in with a brass brush, leave it 24hrs, then wipe out and clean as normal. I do this with all guns at least once a year, more often with problem guns, Model 1 Maynards. This may have to do with the lead I use, it is mostly soft with slight alloy, tests 7.5 on the Brinell hardness scale. This was also used for the Smith. The lube is MCM which I have complete faith in, I use it in 3 Henrys and never have to clean during a match which is unheard of.

PS-Lou, send me $1300 and I'll send you the Smith and let you keep it for a couple of years.

[Kevin Tinny]

Hello, Kowdoc:

Every one of my black powder rifles requires a fouling shot or two after a good cleaning to return the barrel to a uniform condition. In a couple, I know where the first, second and third shots will go so they become "fouling shots". These are quite close to center but not dead center.

Am interested to know what you find on the patch after using the deleader, please? Is lead visible?
If you are happy with Johnny Dewald's MCM lube, which I am also, there should be no leading for a reasonable number of shots. My Romano Spencer RIFLE will go over 75 rounds before I suspect leading.

If there's any pitting in a bore, that's another matter.

Most "deleaders" are little,more than penetrationg oils that get under and lift the lead. I have had very good results leaving KROIL in a leaded bore. Remarkably, I have seen RIG remove strips of lead, but the gun sat for four years.

Tx for your sharing.
Kevin Tinny

[MR. GADGET]

Some of the lead and copper cutters are real bad on the bore if you leave them in long.
They can etch the bore and if used many times over turn a good barrel into junk.

Not sure on that cleaner but a lot of the sprays and other cleaners have a time limit on them.
If you leave it in too long there is nothing you can do.

I stick to the oils and cleaners that I know you need not worry about long term use or time limits.
Kroil and Balistal have worked great for me.

[Kevin Tinny]

Right on, Gadget:

MIXING some cleaners, among themselves, and even with oil can cause damage. Boots Obermayer discovered many years ago that one widely used bore cleaner allowed to mix with a respected "oil" would seriously etch a bore. Never apply oils on top of a cleaner. Always remove and neutralize cleaners first.

This even applies to stainless barrels!

Regards,
Kevin Tinny

[henrymstr]

I have shot a smith for 20 yrs. You are doing nothing wrong, smiths are temperamental, your gun is telling you it likes to shoot dirty. Dont clean it unless you absolutly have to. Try to brush it first, no solovents. This is blkpwdr, some rules of shooting dont apply!

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk

[gjwarren]

I used naval gelly to delete a zouave I shot great for 16 years. Cleaned the bore right down to the imperfections & it did what you're experiencing. Same with a Maynard. Now I run a patch with gumout carb cleaner sprayed on it. It gets loose lead, but leaves the bore good. Took alot of tamarack lube & shooting to get the bores back to perfect
Especially for skirmishing, the first shot should be as good as the last. Cleaning during team event is overated. With the right size ball & correct (not too thin) lube, all that's needed is a quick brush. If the brass swab is, dry, not enough lube.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Jim Barber]

Just throwing an idea out there, but you didn't happen to give the nipple a good cleaning while you were in de-leading mode, did you? I had a shot-out nipple on my (actually my dad's) Smith that shot much, much worse after I'd given the gun an extra-thorough cleaning. I think getting the fire channel squeaky clean exposed the egg-shaped, widened out touch hole in the nipple. It'd been auto-correcting itself having a bit of carbon buildup til I "fixed" it. I don't recall the exact symptoms-- it was so maddening I've tried to forget-- but it was very ugly.

A wise soul asked me, "when was the last time you changed the nipple?" to which I responded, "You're supposed to change them!?" So mine was really, really far gone. Maybe a less-bad one would have repeatable characteristics which would change after a cleaning?

Just a thought. I have to go plastic-weld my broken roundball dimpling machine now.

Jim B.
Grove City, OH!

[Mike Rouch 07791]

Way to go Jim, I haven't told anyone.



Mike

[Greg Ogdan 110th OVI]

Oops, there goes secrecy. I haven't told anyone either.

[Rob FreemanWBR]

I used naval gelly to delete a zouave I shot great for 16 years. Cleaned the bore right down to the imperfections & it did what you're experiencing. Same with a Maynard. Now I run a patch with gumout carb cleaner sprayed on it. It gets loose lead, but leaves the bore good. Took alot of tamarack lube & shooting to get the bores back to perfect
Especially for skirmishing, the first shot should be as good as the last. Cleaning during team event is overated. With the right size ball & correct (not too thin) lube, all that's needed is a quick brush. If the brass swab is, dry, not enough lube.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Ditto - cleaning during team events is not needed if you have the right sized bullet. Too many folks "over size" their rounds and thus sufficent fouling occurs to the point where it inhibits unfettered muzzle stuffing... Good/fresh lube is vital too!! One, without the other, and you WILL experience problems/fouling. I can shoot my beloved Fayetteville literally all day with out patching, and have no problems in loading her.