Favorite revolver loads

[gmkmd]

Curious about what the experienced shooters are using in their cap & ball revolvers.
It seems that most guys in the US use cream of wheat or semolina as a filler on top of their powder charge, but in Europe many shooters use only a very thick, lubricated felt wad. And then again, some use a lubricated felt wad on top of the semolina.
Has anyone done any comparative testing? I'm intrigued by the use of the very thick felt wads alone, as it would certainly be more convenient than ground cereal, but I have never seen them for sale here in the United States (we only seem to have the ones that are about an eighth of an inch thick).
Also, most Europeans seem to be using Swiss 1 1/2 or Swiss 2 for their powder, while a lot of US shooters are using Swiss 3.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Lou Lou Lou]

Ox Yoke made a dry lubed felt wad for .36 and .44 revolvers. worked well

[gmkmd]

Yes, but those are the thin ones, that some guys use on top of the cream of wheat. In Europe they make wads which are nearly 1/2" thick (I think 10mm actually) which take up the whole air space to seat the ball just at the chamber mouth.

[jonk]

I use 10 gr of 3f goex and enough cornmeal to get me within a ball's thickness of the top of the cylinder. And yes, this is a .44. I find a mild load is more accurate, the gun easier to control, and fouling less. Your mileage will vary of course.

I have used Ox Yoke wads, but given the N-SSA's requirement to grease the top of the cylinder, don't bother with them anymore. As for thick felt wads, i've never used 'em. Nothing against them of course, but corn meal is cheaper...

[Tom Magno, 9269V]

...but given the N-SSA's requirement to grease the top of the cylinder, don't bother with them anymore...

There is an N-SSA requirement to grease over the ball? Is this new? I have used greased wads or used lubed conicals without grease over top - did not know that it was a requirement. Can you please point to the regulation that states this? I see where it says "Filler or wads may be used in the chambers, and all chambers must be greased", but there is no definition to what "greased" means - over or under the ball. Lubed wads or lubed conicals effectively constitute being 'greased' so as to keep fouling soft and to prevent chain fires.

[P.Altland]

There is an N-SSA requirement to grease over the ball? Is this new? I have used greased wads or used lubed conicals without grease over top - did not know that it was a requirement. Can you please point to the regulation that states this? I see where it says "Filler or wads may be used in the chambers, and all chambers must be greased", but there is no definition to what "greased" means - over or under the ball. Lubed wads or lubed conicals effectively constitute being 'greased' so as to keep fouling soft and to prevent chain fires.

Rule 20.6b

I think it's safe to assume "grease" means over the ball to seal the chamber.


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[Tom Magno, 9269V]

Rule 20.6b

I think it's safe to assume "grease" means over the ball to seal the chamber.


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I don't assume anything. Sealing the chamber with a greased over powder wad or greased conical does the same thing.

[P.Altland]

Perhaps you should then refer to your Regional IG for the clarified definition of "greased". Seems to me that since they separate the sentences involving the use of wads and greasing all chambers or specify that a greased wad is an acceptable alternate that the intent is for grease over the ball.



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[John Holland]

And this a prime example of why the rules are approaching 250 pages!

[Tom Magno, 9269V]

Perhaps you should then refer to your Regional IG for the clarified definition of "greased". Seems to me that since they separate the sentences involving the use of wads and greasing all chambers that the intent is for grease over the ball.



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Good idea - we need a ruling/clarification. I know plenty of conical shooters who do not grease over their chambers. I would also contend that even if you greased over, after the first shot, the majority of grease over the other 5 cylinders is gone. That's my experience anyway. If the goal is to seal to prevent chain fires, it is effectively done with a properly fitted projectile that shaves during loading. Grease will keep fouling soft. The chain fires occur usually from loose fitting caps on the back of the cylinder.
Anyway - agree that a ruling clarification is needed, but one with well thought out reasoning, with advice from top revolver shooters (that's not me)...

[Mike McDaniel]

Back to the OP...

Most top-level competitors at the International level are using Swiss #2 powder (3F equivalent). Loads are running in the 15 grain range. Filler is Cream of Wheat, farina, semolina...something relatively incompressible. No wads. Grease on top of bullet.

[jonk]

Good idea - we need a ruling/clarification. I know plenty of conical shooters who do not grease over their chambers. I would also contend that even if you greased over, after the first shot, the majority of grease over the other 5 cylinders is gone. That's my experience anyway. If the goal is to seal to prevent chain fires, it is effectively done with a properly fitted projectile that shaves during loading. Grease will keep fouling soft. The chain fires occur usually from loose fitting caps on the back of the cylinder.
Anyway - agree that a ruling clarification is needed, but one with well thought out reasoning, with advice from top revolver shooters (that's not me)...

I would agree that a clarification would be handy. I never even considered that a greased wad was sufficient under the rules. As for the chain fire thing, I've had one cylinder do this once. Fortunately on the side of the revolver.

It was the ONE time I have ever shot the gun where I forgot to grease. At all.

Loose caps may play a part, but I can't dismiss that. I DID shave a ring of lead on each cylinder, too. If you go on youtube, a guy intentionally chain fires... by not greasing the cylinders. Not sure how that's possible against the logic of an interference fit round ball, but it is.

As to the issue of most grease blowing off... yes, I had this happen too, when using crisco or bore butter. Switched to spg softened with a little more crisco and the issue went away. Grease stays in place shot after shot.

Back to the OP again, the real answer here is, unfortunately- start low and work up. Begin around 8 gr of 3f, work up to 30, using whatever filler you want... and then with the ball seated on the powder. Repeat with wads if you like. From a bench. Prepare to spend a few dedicated days at it. Nothing else will really suffice.

[Tom Magno, 9269V]

I would agree that a clarification would be handy. I never even considered that a greased wad was sufficient under the rules. As for the chain fire thing, I've had one cylinder do this once. Fortunately on the side of the revolver.

It was the ONE time I have ever shot the gun where I forgot to grease. At all.

Loose caps may play a part, but I can't dismiss that. I DID shave a ring of lead on each cylinder, too. If you go on youtube, a guy intentionally chain fires... by not greasing the cylinders. Not sure how that's possible against the logic of an interference fit round ball, but it is.

As to the issue of most grease blowing off... yes, I had this happen too, when using crisco or bore butter. Switched to spg softened with a little more crisco and the issue went away. Grease stays in place shot after shot.

Back to the OP again, the real answer here is, unfortunately- start low and work up. Begin around 8 gr of 3f, work up to 30, using whatever filler you want... and then with the ball seated on the powder. Repeat with wads if you like. From a bench. Prepare to spend a few dedicated days at it. Nothing else will really suffice.

Yes, I think I saw that youtube video, but if it's the same video, he goes on to show the chain fire in super-slow motion, and you can see the flash from ignition lapping around to the rear of the cylinder where it ignites the next chamber - it didn't come from the front. I'm no expert, so I'll just await the clarification - until now I have had no issues or challenges on the line by any safeties.

[P.Altland]

until now I have had no issues or challenges on the line by any safeties.

Don't think I'd hang my Kepi on that. Be sure to update the group when you get a definitive.


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[John Holland]

Current N-SSA Rules do not require the Safety Officer to inspect each cylinder to verify you have greased each chamber, but I bet it could be added!

[Tom Magno, 9269V]

Current N-SSA Rules do not require the Safety Officer to inspect each cylinder to verify you have greased each chamber, but I bet it could be added!

FIRST - My apologies to Glenn for hijacking his post. It should be moved to its own thread.

OK since I stirred this pot, and will have to take the heat for it anyway by fellow revolver shooters, I might as well pour more fuel on this fire. Verify is not written, but the word "observe" is, and I would use those terms interchangeably. And if you disagree, think of the wording we are debating - like "greased" it is apparently expected and assumed.


GENERAL DUTIES OF SAFETY OFFICERS (added 08/06)
a.
A Safety Officer must have a working knowledge of all parts of SECTION 20: LOADING AND CLEARING SMALL ARMS that pertain to the type of arm being used in competition.
b.
Safety Officers must observe the loading, firing and clearing procedures of all competitors of the company to which he/she is assigned.
c.
A safety officer must focus all attention on the competitors on his position, and must not watch the targets break.
d.
A Safety Officer must inform a competitor of safety violations, and must stop unsafe practices when observed.
e.
The red flag must be raised in only TWO situations:
1.AFTER the CEASE FIRE command has been given from the tower, to inform the tower that there is a fouled arm on that position;
2.During an event if there is a condition on that position that requires the immediate cessation of fire; for example, a medical emergency requiring the immediate attention of medical personnel.

[P.Altland]

Wasn't there a condensed publication made specifically for safeties before Nationals a few years ago?


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[Phil Spaugy, 3475V]

See attached.

[Maillemaker]

I use 18 grains 3F Goex in my .44 Remington, followed by enough cream of wheat to allow the ball to seat flush with the cylinder face. I did test load workups with filler vs. no filler and found that in no case was a no-filler load more accurate than the most accurate filler load. So I am convinced that there is something to minimizing the "jump" to the rifling. I use a .457 round ball. .454 works, but my Walker needs .457 and it's nice to have one ball size to deal with.

I recently was given a bunch of lubricated wads as part of a gun purchase, so I decided to try them instead of filler. I figured it would be easier to stick in X number of wads instead of carefully dispensing cream of wheat.

The problem is when I drive the ball into the chamber it squeezed the lube out of the wads and fouled the powder, causing misfires, hangfires, and reduced loads.

I always apply crisco/beeswax over the cylinders. While this helps with fouling, I suspect that most chain fires are a result of improper ball and cap fitting.

Steve

[W.Huff]

Ok folks lets use a little common sense here yes the rule says" Filler or wads may be used in the chambers, and all chambers must be greased, please note it says filler or wads may be used AND all chambers must be greased. No it does not say which half of the bullet to grease, how many cc's, what color, what brand of grease to use but it does say ALL CHAMBERS must be greased but if you feel that this needs to be clarified further feel free to submit a proposed rules change to you regional commander so he or she can submit it to the rules committee by November 18

Thank you
Wade Huffman
National Inspector General

[P.Altland]

Unfortunately common sense doesn't always rule the day. I think, if asked, that better than 95 people out of 100 would interpret the rule as was intended. The others would just make it difficult on a safety trying to do their job on the line. As John put it so well, that's why the rule book is nearing 250 pages.
Maybe the use of wads in revolvers should be eliminated. Frankly there's a consistency problem with the revolver rules. On one hand rolled paper "cartridges" are not allowed because a revolved is considered a muzzleloading arm. On the other, muzzleloading arms are not permitted to use wads.


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