1858 Naval Enfield

[buckeye]

I recently picked-up an original 1858 Naval Enfield, Hoyt Relined 1:48 progressive rifling. Now that I am back into skirmishing what does the group recommend as a good load workup? I am also looking for any other details that may help me for this particular weapon.

Thanks,
Bob
w/ Sherman's BG

[Lou Lou Lou]

Take a look at the RCBS Hodgdon post above this one. It discusses load work up

[Maillemaker]

I could not get the RCBS-Hodgdon to shoot well in my Pedersoli P58 (http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-prodotto.asp/l_en/idpr_351/rifles-enfield-enfield-2-band-pattern-1858-naval-rifle.html) with 1:48 twist. But the Pedersoli does not have progressive rifling. I got keyholes with it in mine. I was told the faster twist liked a heavier bullet like the Lyman 575213PH (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/609127/lyman-1-cavity-minie-ball-bullet-mold-575213ph-58-caliber-575-diameter-566-grain-parker-hale-style). I tried it, but my Pedersoli like a .578 bullet and the 575213PH dropped at .575.

I did get one target off a bench with it using the RCBS 500M (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/385368/rcbs-1-cavity-minie-ball-bullet-mold-58-500-m-58-caliber-575-diameter-500-grain) bullet and 60 grains 2F Goex that produced a clover-leaf group at 50 yards, but I have not been able to duplicate it.

http://i.imgur.com/9lt8OxI.jpg?1

The RCBS-500M has a thick skirt and I think that's why it took such a heavy charge to get it to take up the rifling well. While promising, I'd rather not have to feed it 60 grains of powder if I can help it. I have been experimenting with bullet similar to the 575213PH but I am having a custom core pin made for it to allow for a shallower cavity like the 575213PH has. I'm waiting for the machinist to fit it in so I can try load work-ups with this gun again.


Steve

[Maillemaker]

This was my full load workup with the P58 and the RCBS-500M:

http://i.imgur.com/SzKuKkW.jpg

I thought I had it licked with that 60 grain charge but on subsequent outings was not able to achieve that again. I need to go experiment some more. I picked up a smoothbore and most of my experimentation time has gone into it since I already had a musket.

Steve

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

Try a wadcutter with 43 / 45 grains of 2f, with crisco in the base.

[Muley Gil]

My Parker-Hale 1858 Naval rifle shoots well with 42.5-45.0 grains of FFFg Goex behind a Rapine new style Minie sized .576". It also has the 1 in 48" twist.

[Maillemaker]

My Parker-Hale 1858 Naval rifle shoots well with 42.5-45.0 grains of FFFg Goex behind a Rapine new style Minie sized .576". It also has the 1 in 48" twist.

If I'm reading this right:

http://www.castpics.net/subsite/CurMolds/Rapine.pdf

The Rapine New Style Minie is a 510 grain bullet? This would corroborate the idea of a heavier bullet in the P58.

Steve

[William Schoenfeld, 1386]

I have a Pedersoli Enfield and I use 42 grains of 3 F powder with a Rapine Old Style minie.

[terrydull]

I recently picked-up an original 1858 Naval Enfield, Hoyt Relined 1:48 progressive rifling. Now that I am back into skirmishing what does the group recommend as a good load workup? I am also looking for any other details that may help me for this particular weapon.

Thanks,
Bob
w/ Sherman's BG

I have a Euroarms 1858 Enfield ... reported to be 1:66 twist ... bore is .582 ... I use a Lyman "Old Style" Minie sized to 0.580 (about 500 grains) with 45 grains of 3F. This yields about a 4" group at 50 yards ... now, if only I could get that 4" group in the black regularly :)

[ms3635v]

Terry,

I shot an RCBS 500M a while back and it does perform well. The only issues I had with it was it was a heavy bullet (525 grains, if I remember correctly). But, using some of Lou Ruggerio's sage advice, I had a different base plug made that made the bullet weigh less. Even with this modification, the bullet performed well under 45 grains of GOEX 3F. The bullet has a lot of bearing surface and the grease grooves give you plenty of lube to keep the bore soft.

[Maillemaker]

I find the RCBS 500M weights about 535 grains cast with pure lead:

http://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/7643-RCBS-500M-Weights?highlight=RCBS-500M

It has a very thick skirt. I suspect that's why it took 60 grains to get it to perform best in my Pedersoli P58 with 1:48 twist.

I have a Lyman 575213OS which I am having a custom core pin made for to up its weight that I will try. It has a thinner skirt.

Steve

[terrydull]

I've not seen the RCBS-500M sizing data that would lead me to believe that it would have the proper diameter for my bore (0.582).

My LYMAN OS drops at 0.582 and I size it to 0.580 ... The RCBS-500M, I have been told, drops much less than that. Does anyone have any information on what the actual diameter of the RCBS-500M drops out on the mold at?

Thanks,
Terry

[Muley Gil]

If I'm reading this right:

http://www.castpics.net/subsite/CurMolds/Rapine.pdf

The Rapine New Style Minie is a 510 grain bullet? This would corroborate the idea of a heavier bullet in the P58.

Steve

Yes, the NS Rapine weighs out around 510 grains.

[Maillemaker]

I am able to size my RCBS-500M bullets to .578, but I don't think they would size much higher than that.

Steve

[terrydull]

I am able to size my RCBS-500M bullets to .578, but I don't think they would size much higher than that.

Steve

Thanks Steve ... I thought the RCBS-500M was a little to skinny for my barrel ... I didn't think the LYMAN OS would work either until I made up a few to check them out. I was really surprised to find that an "out of the box" Euroarms had a bore of 0.582.

Now on my Traditional Musket ... an 1853 Enfield ... I have a Hoyt Barrel that has a bore if 0.578. My 2nd OVI teammate, Marty Richards, let me use his "FUNNY" bullet mold and I'm going to try it out this winter, sized to 0.576.

Thanks,
Terry

[Maillemaker]

Yup, I've got a Lyman OS bullet right here and it is measuring .577-.585 depending on what direction you measure (bullet is slightly out of round). I can size it to .578 well enough to work in my P58, which is why I'm having a custom core pin made for it to make it heavier like the 575213PH bullet.

The very first black powder rifle I bought was a Euroarms P53. It was used. I had to use a .584 bullet in it, but I never could get an accurate load developed for it. I quickly replaced the barrel with one from Whitacre.

Just measured an as-cast RCBS-500M and it is measuring .580-.583.

Steve

[terrydull]

Just measured an as-cast RCBS-500M and it is measuring .580-.583.

Steve

Ummm ... that's good news ... I'll have to put an RCBS-500M on my Christmas list!

[Lou Lou Lou]

Terry
fellow on my team called them and told them he needed 3 oversize moulds. He got them all were 580 or better. He spoke to a machinist, I believe This was before Ohais bought them out

[jonk]

Bob, I know Mike sold you the gun and was shooting .576s out of it. I have a set of plug gauges. If we get a chance to meet up over the off season a few times at my range in sandusky (halfway in between where we both live) I'm happy to bring a selection of bullets for you to try, and the gauges to figure out just what size exactly you need.

I get excellent accuracy out of my Euroarms .576 1858 1:48, that I had Bobby Hoyt deepen the rifling on. I"d start there with the Hodgdon and 48 gr of goex 3f. If we can't meet up, I'd be happy to mail you some samples, those included, as well as the 315 gr wadcutters, 575213s, Old Styles, etc., also the lee trashcan wadcutter... really whatever I have on hand you're welcome to try out.

At the demonstration shoot at Attica this weekend I shot 4 in a row with the Hodgdon load. Great bullet. Only thing I find is the skirt is a bit shallow and thick. NE trader, one of the sutlers, makes a modified core pin that's the bees knees. I'd get one while the getting is good as the proprietor is getting up in years and probably isn't going to be at this too many more years.