Front sight question

[Moses Milner]

Hello all--This may be a rather ignorant question, and possibly has been answered here before. If so, accept my apologies.
I've seen muskets listed on the Wanted/For Sale forum with "Tall shooter's front sights." My question is this: How are these sights more advantageous over the arsenal, or stock, front sights? If the guns are replicas of the originals, weren't the original specs for the front sights adequate? Wouldn't a taller sight depress the muzzle and make it shoot lower?
Like I said, an ignorant question perhaps, but an answer would be appreciated.
Thanks.
MM

[SHARPS4953]

Hello all--This may be a rather ignorant question, and possibly has been answered here before. If so, accept my apologies.
I've seen muskets listed on the Wanted/For Sale forum with "Tall shooter's front sights." My question is this: How are these sights more advantageous over the arsenal, or stock, front sights? If the guns are replicas of the originals, weren't the original specs for the front sights adequate? Wouldn't a taller sight depress the muzzle and make it shoot lower?
Like I said, an ignorant question perhaps, but an answer would be appreciated.
Thanks.
MM

Usually the stock sights shoot high out of the box. A tall sight lets you file it down and "dial in" the rifle for target shooting. So to answer your question, no arsenal sights are not adequate for target shooting/

Scott 1st Maine

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Many Civil War soldiers never learned to sight in their muskets or hit what they were shooting at, either because they didn't live long enough on the battlefield, or their units simply didn't have enough ammunition to spare to determine where their muskets struck a target. They spent more time learning to drill on the parade field, and learning to follow orders, than in spending time shooting their long arms. The latter was a problem that plagued the Army later in the century up until after the war with Spain when troops like the 8th Massachusetts arrived in Cuba with newly issued rifles they had never shot.

Sure, many of the replica arms shoot high out of the box, but a certain number also shoot dead on, and some even shoot low. It really takes a good eye to pull one out of a box and shoot dead-on with it. Those that have already been modified for precision target shooting will simply save you time in getting up to speed on the firing line because someone else has already done most of the work for you. Very few of the replicas are exact replicas, and most all of the production arms are not exact replicas nor do they perform out of the box like the real thing. In fact, for the better part of 20 years, I competed with an original Pattern 1860 Enfield rifle because it just shot practically one ragged hole up to 100 yards. I only retired it because I acquired a custom made Model 1855 Rifle that shoots much the same. The P/60 Enfield rifle had standard issue sights.

[Moses Milner]

Usually the stock sights shoot high out of the box. A tall sight lets you file it down and "dial in" the rifle for target shooting. So to answer your question, no arsenal sights are not adequate for target shooting/

Scott 1st Maine

Thanks Scott.
Now, given the variety of minie sizes, shapes, weights, etc, is there a rule of thumb to follow when "dialing it in"? With round ball for example, old rule of thumb is to start with ball .010 smaller than nominal bore size, corresponding patch thickness, and powder charge of same weight as rifle caliber, and start at about 50 yards. Modify your loads from there. (Yes, I know that there will be those who disagree with that, but it has always worked for me in over 50 yrs of round ball muzzleloading.) Is there something comparable with rifle muskets other than just blind trial and error? What have you experienced guys done?
Thanks.

[Michael Bodner]

Good place to start with a Minie is 0.001 smaller than the bore of the gun. ~40g 3Ffg powder. Move up and down in 1 grain increments until you find the best group.

BTW: You need to measure the actual bore of the gun ( with a plug gauge), NOT go by what is written/stamped on the barrel...

[Curt]

Hallo!

Not a rule, but...

Often, typically, rear sights are graduated between "long range" rear sights and "short range" rear sights. LR's may be graduated with a ladder type piece in 100 yard/meter/Schritt increments out to 900-1000. SR may be graduated with leaves, say three choices of 100, 300, 500 yards.

The front sight height is set accordingly.

So, typically the shortest distance that can be sighted is 100 "yards." In the N-SSA 50 yard events are popular so the front (and/or rear sight) has to be compensated. Most time the rear sight cannot be (easily or at all) lowered enough or any, so the front sight has to be raised to go from 100 to 50 yards

Curt

[Muley Gil]

Another issue is that the sights were based on a standard load of the day-usually 60 grains of "musket" powder (about FFg) under a 460-510 grain Minie bullet.

Since your typical skirmisher uses a much lighter powder charge (40-50 grains) and ofttimes a lighter or heavier bullet, the sights have to be adjusted to compensate.

[SHARPS4953]

My 1st rifled musket was a mid 1980's Dixie gunworks 63 springfield kit. Benching it would yield 10x's all day long but only with 100 grains of powder. The 2 piece stock would separate after every shot and I would go home with a bruised shoulder. I never had to touch the stock front sight at all.

Scott
1st Maine

[Moses Milner]

Thanks to all who replied, Scott, Richard, Mike, Curt, Gil. You all answered my questions. What I'm hearing is that loads with muskets --as with most ML --can and probably do, vary widely with each individual musket: 40 - 100 gr of powder. Seems like it could be even more complex, given the variety of bullet shapes, sizes, and weights. Do most of you begin with a certain bullet: wadcutter, Old style minie, something else?
Thanks again.
MM

[Michael Bodner]

In general, it's really not too complicated. Although there are many fringe conditions, in general you want the 0.001 under-bore size bullet. A Hodgdon bullet is an excellent choice. But so is a semi-wad cutter as is the full-sized Minie. All can work in your gun. Some might produce tighter groups, however.

If you want to hit the X ring each shot, then you have to perfectly fine tune the bullet type, lube, powder type (and manufacture) and caps (Manufacturer). But if you want to hit inside the black scoring rings, then you can start with a single bullet type, powder type, and cap type, and simply adjust the amount of powder (starting at 40g) and see how tight the group gets. If it's acceptable to you, stop there. If you want more, then you try a different bullet, etc. and try again to see if you get your desired results.

The whole issue about the tall front sight is based on the fact that the original war-purpose guns were expected to be fired at 200+ yards, not at 50-yds. Hence the sights were set up for that sort of distance (and with a hefty powder charge).

For N-SSA target competitions, we greatly reduce the charge (only punching through paper) and that in combination with the shorter distance means we have to move the sights a lot. Since its almost impossible to reduce the height of the rear sight, we increase the height of the front site. Hence the comments you see!!

It definitely ain't Rocket Surgery....

-Mike

[Maillemaker]

Great post Mike!