Eroded Breach

[Gray Ghost]

Out of curiosity I have a question. I have seen reference to muskets that are used mostly for re-enacting as having eroded breaches thus making them inaccurate. I understand how erosion may cause a problem. What I don't understand is, if a re-enactor cleans his musket after firing like he should, how does firing blanks cause the breach to erode anymore than live firing.
Just wondering.
Larry

[Greg Ogdan, 11444]

Answer! It is possible that not being shooters themselves, many reenactors really do not spend the time we do cleaning and preserving our bores.

[Buck]

I have had the same question and appreciate the reply.

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

I am not a physics major or anything close. I know of the problem because early on I bought several guns from re-enactors and all had the bad breech erosion. I asked around trying to find a reasonable explanation since the bores were pristine.

This is the explaination given to me as best as I remember it.

A shooter who is a physicist,(Don't remember who told me this, but he had a bunch of letters after his name as a PHD and other stuff.) explained that the blank charge, not under compression, has a different burn than a charge with a bullet on top. It is contained in a small area from one side of the barrel to the other, while the blank charge lays out flat leaving air space on top of the charge. The gases when ignited erode the metal over time because the uneven burn, rather than an instant even explosion. The metal in the breech has to re-direct the gas down the bore resulting in gas etching in the first 2-3" of the breech where the seated bullet causes even burn and gases have only one way to accelerate, down the bore.

This was over 10 years ago, so if somebody with some more credentials than me knows, speak up. I after personal experience have accepted it as a truth. Early on I disparaged the way re-enactors cared for their weapons. Now, I realize some probably did very well but science was against them.

Another theory was the method of cleaning used by re-enactors. Namely, the tools that fit on the ramrod only. They do okay for the bore proper but have difficulty getting into the breech areas.

Since talking to several re-enactors, I chose to believe the physicist rather than accuse folks of not taking care of their guns without knowing.

[Greg Ogdan, 11444]

Edwin,
Very interesting post; sounds plausible. May I say that I was not trying to "accuse" anyone, mearly noting one possibility. Certainly I would not want to disparage any of our reenacting friends.

[RaiderANV]

What I don't understand is, if a re-enactor cleans his musket after firing like he should,....

While Sir Edwands answer has merit, a vast portion of our War of Northern Aggression lovin' "cousins" DON'T clean their musket like they should and more then a few NEVER EVER clean them.

This is my personal experience having worked way to many reenactments as a gunsmith attempting to fit their toyz so they can go play again. I've pulled locks out of guns only a few years old and the insides(all encrusted) look like they were brought up in the Monitor.

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

Pat,

While many folks have made your acquaintance at these events because of their own neglect, The ones that care for their weapons would not have had to avail themselves of your services. In short, you see the ones that DON'T care for their weapons, not the ones that do.

The puzzle on my part was that the erosion was in bores that otherwise were perfect. Locks/Wood were okay also. So why the erosion. What I was told sounded logical so....

Anyway, I now use much Caution in purchasing a re-enactor weapon. Always check the breech.

[RaiderANV]

But Edward,,,,I didn't say all of dem :cry:

They seem to think running a brush and patch til it's sorta clean works. Somehow they haven't got past the push it all to the bottom and leave it part. Again,,not all Green

[Oregon Bill]

So you check for this condition in virtually any used Civil War-era repro by feeling for a loose spot with a tight patch at the breech end?

[Ken Hansgen, 11094]

Repro or original. I bought an original M1842 with this problem. If an unfired load is left in too long (years, sometimes) the blackpowder will absorb moisture which invites rust.

[Southron Sr.]

Having attended a fair share of re-enactments and having observed many re-enactors guns, I have arrived at the following conslusions.

1. I think that Ed Flint has a good point. I would like to also point out that shooting 'blank charges only' is hard on a musket also, because more fouling remains in the bore after each shot.

When firing live ammo, the Minie Ball, when travelling down the bore, tends to carry some of the fouling from the previous shot out with it. When firing blanks, this dosen't happen-the fouling simply builds up more with each successive shot.

2. Keep in mind to a dyed-in-the-wool' re-enactor, his musket is simply a 'prop' or 'noise maker. Consequently SOME re-enactors don't care for their muskets. Hey, if it is dirty or grungy, it might look more 'authentic..'

Some re-enactors never realize that their muskets are "real firearms." This was brought home to me years ago, when I provided live ammo to a group of re-enactors and gave them a quick course on how to safely shoot a rifle-musket with live ammo.

After the first 50 yard event, with a dozen re-enactors blazing away a target frame hung with styrofoam cups, I called "Cease Fire," then acted as a safety officer and cleared them from the line. Keep in mind this was the FIRST time many of them had fired live ammo in their muskets.

When we went downrange, the re-enactors weren't interested in the targets that they had hit or missed (most were missed). They were interested in the bullet holes in the target frame and the pine forest BEHIND the target frame that served as a backstop area.

They were amazed and dumbfounded as to what Minie Balls had done to the trees, cutting off limbs, or passing thru some of the smaller trees, blowing off bark,etc.

I will never forget that one re-enactor, walked back to the line, gingerly picked up his musket, held it out in front of himself, looking at it as if it were a live rattle snake and exclaimed in profound SHOCK: "Oh My God! These are REAL guns!"

So, I am convinced it is a combination of things that account for many (certainly not all) re-enactors haveing dirty, grungy guns.

A steady diet of 'blanks only' hurt their guns and in some cases, neglect and a lack of proper cleaning just tend to make mattters worse.

[Oregon Bill]

Southron: A tip o' the kepie to you sir.

[Blair]

It is actually worse than Southron has discribed.
You should see, or read about what they tell each other to use to "clean" those guns. And How to do it. Providing you want to be the most authentic 'enacter on your street. One loves coffee and will swear by it and another one will stand there pointing a finger skyward in suport of his right to clean his gun using any "authintic and documented" method he wants to use.
They get a problem with miss fires.
It has nothing to do with the "poor" cleaning they are doing on their firearm... its becauce the formula used in making the musket cap has changed.
Now, this maybe true to some extent, but a good cleaning will solve that. They recommend fixing the problem by going after the nipple with a drill to open it up, and/or drilling out the flash hole/clean out screw hole.
It is actually quite scary if you take the time to think about it.
When was the last time you heard someone recommend using bacon grease on their musket to keep rust off of it? How about two days ago?
The "Eroded Breech" issue is only the tip of this ice burg
Thank you for your intrest,
Blair J Taylor