Gywn & Campbell

[Dave Fox]

Today at the Marietta, Georgia, Civil War relic show my frail good sense left me entirely and I purchased a Gywn & Campbell type II carbine. I think its ugly factor and bad reputation unduly influenced me; that and the really good price which matched what I had in my pocket, precisely. Why the government was still buying these turkeys in 1864 is a puzzlement. Condition is tight, unfired apparently, with an excellent bore and badly stored exterior metal finish.
Mainly I purchased it to play with. Home, it appears Maynard/Smith bullets would work. Also, Sharps ringtail bullets are a good fit and, seated in cut-down Charlie Hahn Sharps cardboard cartridges, load easily, though there's not much room for powder. I could punch a small hole in the cardboard cartridge side and paper over with tissue for the cap flash. I've read Schiffers's account of shooting one in "Civil War Carbines, Myth vs. Reality".
Anyone have experience shooting the Gywn & Campbell? I'd appreciate any practical advice, beyond not leaving ones forearm under the action when squeezing the trigger.

[Eggman]

Jim Koch, Forrest's Escort, is an expert on these, has a collection (jfkoch1950@gmail.com). Keep in mind the "fire extinguisher" kept on the range is not a fire extinguisher - it's compressed air used to remove bullets. If you spray it on your burning sleeve it will enhance the fire, not put it out.

[Dave Fox]

Thanks, Eggman. I'll e-mail him.

[John Holland]

Richard Hill of the 14th Miss. is who you want to talk to about actually shooting them.

[Dave Fox]

I thank you, Mr. Holland. Can someone get me up with Richard Hill?

[Eggman]

It's a little known fact that the reason Forrest trounced Stugis at Brice's Crossroads, despite being heavily outnumbered, is that the 3rd Iowa Cavalry deployed on the front line went up in flames when they actually fired their Gywn and Campbells for the first time.

[Richard Hill]

I never finished working up a load for mine. It would seem it's CW-era reputation has some truth in it. I pulled the hammer back to half cock one day and the tumbler broke. Mine is a near-mint example. After a long search I had to get a new tumbler made, as there seems to be no spare parts available. I finally found a complete lock but a quick inspection showed the tumbler and mainspring had been repaired by brazing or welding. and most parts had file marks on them. If you are willing to take the risk go ahead and shoot it, but keep in mind that the lock parts appear to be brittle.

[John Holland]

Thank you, Richard, for replying. A friend also found the same lock issues to be true with his G & C carbine. He also found a spare lock only to discover nearly all the internal lock parts had been buggered up!

[Dave Fox]

FYI: I took this newly acquired G & C to the range this morning. Had a handful of .515 Smith/Maynard lubed bullets available. Seated the bullet then, initially, filled the chamber with 45 grains of FFFg. Pleasantly stout load. Was very positively surprised by this "dog" of a carbine: it showed a capacity for 2.5" groups at 50 yards and leaked very little gas. Trigger pull is quite heavy and I had to fold up one wing of each percussion cap to see the rear sight clearly(!) Shall hereafter make up paper cartridges with a starting duplex load of 15 grains of Cream of Wheat and the balance being FFFg, whatever fills the cartridge.
My friends and I casually shoot original Sharps, Maynards, Spencers, Smiths, and Burnsides. I never contemplated purchasing a Cosmopolitan, but the price was so righteous I couldn't pass it up.This ugly little brute might become my favorite. Thumbing back that jolly big hammer is a hoot in itself. Shall never suffer the embarrassment of hammer envy; it sports what has to be the biggest gun hammer in Christendom. Friend Wayne Spears is going ahead and making a new tumbler, based upon the information in this tread. Thanks for the insight.

[Eggman]

Howscome the Fox doesn't show an N-SSA membership??? What are you Carolina folks doing??? ROPE HIM. Paper cartridges No No in N-SSA.

[Dave Fox]

Howscome the Fox doesn't show an N-SSA membership??? What are you Carolina folks doing??? ROPE HIM. Paper cartridges No No in N-SSA.

I shot with an Illinois team back in 1960 and '61. Used an original forage cap(!) and all original leather with an 1862 Bridesburg. Since then have been busy...college...Nam...grad school...scratching out a living. Now, the busiest of all: retirement. Can't imagine anyone could fabricate a G&C cartridge out of anything but paper. Cartridge is seated 'way into the chamber and only extraction would be by ramrod. Have spectated at Nationals from time to time. Hope to again.

[Michael Bodner]

Dave,

Perhaps you didn't know that we skirmish right in Statesville NC about 5 times a year. Our next skirmish is Sept 11-13. Address of our facility is 1742 Turnersburg Hwy, Statesville, NC. That address will place you at the gravel road entrance to Allison Woods. Follow the road about 1/2 mile (past the mill pond, through the bamboo grove, and turn left when you hit the grass runway. You can't miss us!

With that said, some of us will also be at the Lincoln Funeral Train event in Spencer on August 29th (http://www.thosetrainpeople.com/) Be sure to drop by the N-SSA booth and bring that carbine!!!

BTW: If you do come out to the skirmish, you can bring your carbine (or any other civil war era gun) and take a few shots at our breakable targets (just like at Nationals). I promise you, its shooting well worth it!

I'd also like to extend an invitation for you to meet and talk with the Palmetto Sharpshooters (that's us) and we'd be happy to fill you in on skirmishing, friendship, and good shooting! Just ask for me.

Feel free to email me at: mbodner@chemringds.com if you have any questions, etc.

-Mike

[Dave Fox]

Eggman: I've been ruminating on this thread and have a question: if cartridges made of paper are a "No No" in N-SSA, how do folks shoot Sharps? Just askin'.

[John Holland]

The rule applies to muzzle loading arms. Revolvers are considered to be loaded from the muzzle of the chamber, as would the Hall Carbines, etc. The Starr, Sharps, G&C, etc. are loaded directly into the breech end of an open barrel therefore are allowed to use a combustible type cartridge.

[Richard Hill]

The Gwen and Campbell loads about like a Merrill; the cartridge is placed on a short loading ramp and then pushed forward into the chamber by a rotating/reciprocating breech block.
In the brief time I worked with my G&C. I noticed that the paper didn’t always burn up, especially at the back end at the breech face. Nitrating seemed to help, and I was going to make up some tissue paper cases. Nitrating tissue is a delicate operation. I would think the case needs to be strong enough to not rupture when pushed forward by the breech plug. A little crud on the sealing surfaces would allow gas cutting, and there goes the seal. A reduced diameter paper case as used with a ringtail-type bullet would probably solve the problem, but that bullet doesn’t exist.

[Dave Fox]

Thanks richard. Food for thought.