Cook & Brother Carbine Question

[MikeM.]

I just purchased a beautiful Armi San Paolo Cook Brothers Artillery Musketoon or Carbine. I was comparing it to an original photo and noticed that the rear sling swivel on an original is attached to a long tang protruding from rear of the trigger guard. The rear sling swivel on this reproduction is a brass swivel/ stud found in the traditional location at the rear bottom of the stock. Did I just buy the farbiest repro out there???? Is there anybody I can send it to to make this correct ??? Can it be fitted for a trigger guard off of another Enfield type reproduction that is more correct?If so, where can I find one ??? Cool little rifle but I don't want one that is totally unauthentic. Were there any originals that had the sling swivel in this location? Help me out guys, PLEASE... Also, somebody changed the nipple to use #11 caps, I want to put it back correct. Can anybody tell me what the thread pitch should be and if it should be blue or in the white????Mike

[John Holland]

Mike,

The ASM Cook & Brother Musketoon requires a lot of work to make it into an authentic version of a real Cook & Brother Musketoon. Along with replacing or reconfiguring the trigger guard strap you also have to move the rear barrel band back towards the lock, the rear sight should be a dovetailed block type, and the wrist has to be reshaped with a sculpted shape. As you have noted the photos of original C&B Musketoons are vbvery educational.

The Pedersoli version is a very good example of what it should look like. You can find it pictured in the Pedersoli on-line catalog. I do not know if parts, such as the trigger guard unit, are available or not.

As for the nipple, I do not know what ASM used. The color is not critical, although the originals were blued.

As a side note, the ASM made C&B Musketoon is noted as being very a accurate shooter with live fire.

JDH

[MikeM.]

Thanks!! , I think I am about to get some help from John Zimmerman and Lodgewood Mfg. Ltd. has anybody here ever dealt with either ? Do they do quality jobs?

[MikeM.]

I shipped it to Lodgewood this morning and will post before and after pics when I get it back if anyone cares to see them.... Mike

[Blair]

MikeM,

I for one would like to see the before and after images.
My best,
Blair

[MikeM.]

Great, I will certainly post them but may need help doing so.... Mike

[MikeM.]

Ok guys, my Lodgewood defarbed Cook & Brother carbine should be ready in about a week. Do you guys still want to see pics? Mike

[Muley Gil]

Ok guys, my Lodgewood defarbed Cook & Brother carbine should be ready in about a week. Do you guys still want to see pics? Mike

Does a bear poop in the woods?

OF COURSE, WE WANT TO SEE PICTURES! SILLY SKIRMISHER!

[MikeM.]

Ok but you guys will have to help me post them, is that ok?? Thank... Mike

[Curt]

Hallo!

We likes piggers!

If you do not have a volunteer yet, you can email pictures and I would be happy to post them.

Curt

[MikeM.]

Awesome !!! I should get it back in a week or so. I wish I had taken a few more "before" shots but maybe the difference will be obvious enough.... Thanks... Mike

[Curt]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/CC%201_zpsrm9ry3yj.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/CC%201_zpsrm9ry3yj.jpg.html)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/CC%202_zpsypc3gwfy.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/CC%202_zpsypc3gwfy.jpg.html)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/CC%205_zpskaaskiwl.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/CC%205_zpskaaskiwl.jpg.html)



http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/CC%203_zps7ngpznhm.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/CC%203_zps7ngpznhm.jpg.html)

[Curt]

Hi!

A max of four, so here is the 5th...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/CC%204_zpsappdihau.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/CC%204_zpsappdihau.jpg.html)

Curt

[MikeM.]

Thanks for the help with the pics Curt!! These are the "before" pics. I should get the gun back next week and I will get Curt to help me with the after shots. Thanks Again Curt!!

[MikeM.]

Also, I need some feedback from you guys. I am having a terrible time finding a correctly marked lockplate. The new Pedersoli plate is authentically marked but it slightly smaller than the mortise of my stock( I have one of these for sale now by the way). I have found a very nice custom plate that fits perfect but the "C" in Cook is stamped backwards and is barely noticeable. My question is would you guys use this or would you keep searching ? I have searched a lot and have come up dry. Anybody know where I might get one?

[Curt]

Hallo!

And a 6th:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/CC%206_zpsvfld9lpq.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/CC%206_zpsvfld9lpq.jpg.html)

Curt

[MikeM.]

Well, I'm still waiting on my finished defarbed Cook & Brother Carbine. This is my first and last defarbing venture as it hasn't been a pleasant experience at all.I will still post pics as soon as I get it finished though. Thanks guys... Mike

[MikeM.]

Ok guys!!! I finally got my carbine back from Lodgewood. Looks great !!!! PMd Curt to see if he will help me post some pics!!!

[MikeM.]

Ended up going with the custom lockplate that Lodgewood had made for me. Looks great but the "C" in Cook is backwards to quickly identify the plate as a reproduction . Not real noticeable though and is a true hardened steel plate vs the Italian investment cast one. I am pretty happy with it. Now , if I can get the cartouche on stock duplicated , I will be really happy!!!

[Curt]

Hi!

Sorry to be slow.. out of town for mother-in-law funeral.

Curt

[Curt]

Hi!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/Cook%201_zpsqrjoqkb5.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/Cook%201_zpsqrjoqkb5.jpg.html)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/Cook%202_zpsjwithz1p.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/Cook%202_zpsjwithz1p.jpg.html)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/Cook%208_zpsfkqeea1z.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/Cook%208_zpsfkqeea1z.jpg.html)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/Cook%203_zpslz3itsn3.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/Cook%203_zpslz3itsn3.jpg.html)

[Curt]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/Cook%207_zpsnjwcrq9l.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/Cook%207_zpsnjwcrq9l.jpg.html)


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/Cook%204_zps8klhjesh.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/Cook%204_zps8klhjesh.jpg.html)


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/Cook%205_zpsmotnht5p.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/Cook%205_zpsmotnht5p.jpg.html)

[Curt]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/Cook%206_zpsp9wubb5e.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Michael1787/media/Cook%206_zpsp9wubb5e.jpg.html)

[MikeM.]

Thanks Again Curt!!! You have been a huge help!! Ok, I hope you guys give me some feedback on the transformation!!! It has gone through some pretty significant changes ... Mike

[Muley Gil]

That looks real good!

[Moses Milner]

Well, I'm still waiting on my finished defarbed Cook & Brother Carbine. This is my first and last defarbing venture as it hasn't been a pleasant experience at all.I will still post pics as soon as I get it finished though. Thanks guys... Mike

Hi Mike--Just out of curiosity, why is this your first and last defarbing experience, and what was it that was unpleasant? I am considering having some work done, too, but maybe need some pointers from someone with experience. You can PM me if you'd rather reply privately.
Thanks!
Joe B (MM)

[MikeM.]

no, it really wasn't that bad. It just seemed that things weren't coming together right at times. Authentic aftermarket parts for a Cook & Brother carbine are very difficult to come by,as well as stamps for period markings for one one of them, and I didn't know this before I started the project. There was some miscommunication between me and my de-farber but nothing that couldn't be worked out. I am pleased with the outcome but there was some stressful times during the transformation. Start with a gun that there are plenty of parts for and the whole thing will be easy. I highly recommend David at Lodgewood to do the work for you too. He is a great guy but make sure you are both tracking the same things as far as cost and exactly what you want up front. I was actually disappointed the day I posted that and should have deleted it... Thanks for the reply ...Mike

[Moses Milner]

Thanks Mike. That explains things. David does excellent work-- as is evidenced by the looks of your carbine.
Thanks again for the reply.
Joe B (MM)

[Curt]

Hallo!

Having once done tons of "custom builds," "de-farbs," "retroversions," "authentcizings," and "distressings/agings," such head aches and annoyances are common and often come with the territory.

A good bit comes with mass produced commercial "replicas" that are made "okay enough" to get by putting it politely but that are not copies or clones (or for that matter true reproductions) of the originals for a variety of reasons some valid many not.
When a pieces part is just plain differently wrong, or bigger or smaller than the original, it can create a pain trying to retro-fit it to something else whether original, drop-in interchangeable copy of an original, or just plain say Italian varied "interpretation" of the original.
Next comes the availability of pieces parts. Original parts can be scarce, rare, or virtually non-existent. Original parts not being the effects of time and use that can be used in what would be a new or nearly new gun 1861-1865 can be hard ot find or cost an arm-and-a-leg when minty or excellent.
Copies of original parts may not be available, or the waiting time to have them cast, etc, such as through the Rifle Shoppe can sometimes be long or endless.

Last but not least. Sometimes the knowledge, research and documentation sources, and skills to do the work, or the tools, may not be be part of a lad's skill set. Or the dollars available to pay someone who is.

But it is really great when one does (finally) "come together!"

Curt

[MikeM.]

Thanks Curt!!

[MikeM.]

Wow!! This thing shoots great!! Was going to sell it but have definitely changed my mind!! I know it wasn't N-SSA approved in it's original configuration, but would it be now after it's transformation? Either way, it is staying with me and will probably score a white tail or two in the future!! Still looking for someone who can laser engrave the Cook & Brother Cartouche in the stock too...I will get it done!! The backwards "C" on the lock plate kinda stirs up my OCD but I guess I will live through it....at least it is a quality part....Mike

[CAGerringer]

John Holland will be able to tell you if it is SAC approved. My guess (which is worth ZIP) is, it will probably be OK. It certainly looks great.
Talk to "the Man" to get the straight answer.
Respectfully,
Charlie Gerringer
Old Dominion Dragoons

[MikeM.]

Thanks , how do I get in touch with him ?? Mike

[george7542]

Would probably send him a pm he commented on this tread some time ago

[MikeM.]

Sent him a PM, will let y'all know what he says, ok...Mike

[MikeM.]

This is a great carbine but I have decided to list for sale , if interested , look in the for sale section...Mike