Could use some help here

[PoorJack]

First some background. My family is from the Richmond area and as such pretty much doused in the history and lore of the War of Northern Aggression. One of them after the war said he didn't want to see another dmnd yankee as long as he lived and moved out into the Chicahominy swamps and got his wish. Relic stuff is common among those still living in the area and some have been handed down through the years and have family heirloom value.

Now to the point, My uncle (who is now residing in Oregon) has offered to send one of those heirlooms to my dad. The item in question is an original Harpers Ferry musket. Uncle doesn't know much other than it's Confederate and original but that's beside the point. He's tried to send it once through one of the UPS store locations where they informed him that it's one of those.... evil guns that has to go to a FFL and might be illegal and might cause mass mayhem and destruction or flatulence or body odor and they don't handle evile things like... guns at that store. Uncle is convinced that the store staff is correct. (Hey, when you hit 86 you might be a touch.. uhmmm.. gulible as well)

My plan- since uncle was a bank president, he's all about doing things legal, so I'm thinking of printing out the relevant sections of USC dealing specifically with antique firearms and sending it to him, along with an addressed UPS label in a box sized just right for shipping the musket back. I'm thinking he'll be swayed by the say so of the feds and quotation of relevant sections of the USC and/or ATF rulings.

So my question, what sections of code do you recommend or any ATF rulings that might help here? I'm doing some googe-fu here as well, but some perspective from some legal eagles would help.

tnx
poorjack

[Bullseye54]

Bring it to the USPS (U.S. Yankee Post Office) they won't have a problem with it..
Just get insurance and tracking..

[John Bly]

Those UPS stores are privately owned and have their own set of rules they follow. Ship it by the US Postal Service. Pack it extremely well and insure it. By extremely well I mean to survive being run over by a dump truck if you would like to get it in one piece. Good luck.

[Maillemaker]

Federally, the feds don't consider black powder firearms to be firearms, so they are not restricted in inter-state transfers through FFLs like modern firearms are.

Some states have different laws, so you will have to check with your state and the state you are shipping to.

I have bought several black powder long arms and revolvers through the mail direct-to-my door from both private individuals and from retail establishments.

Steve

[R. McAuley 3014V]

FedEX currently requires an Dealer or Collector FFL to ship firearms which fit into those categories of firearms, and requires a commercial account as if the FFL holder is a business entity. UPS (at least for the moment) has not yet adopted any such rules, though the State of Oregon may have some restrictions. As long as it involves an antique firearm (made on or before 31 December 1898), there are no restrictions even shipping internationally, though it is usually best that if you are shipping internationally you may want to use someone with an export license to clear customs. Generally BATF&E could care less if its chambered for an obsolete caliber (like a M1860 Spencer) or is a blackpowder gun. Modern made replicas fall into a slightly different classification depending on whether it uses a modern cartridge (is considered a modern firearm) or is strictly a blackpower muzzleloader and exempt. Even with an FFL, FedEX tends to hassle everyone who attempts to ship a firearm or even parts, usually because the clerk at the desk only knows FedEX "doesn't" ship guns without an FFL holder having a commercial account with FedEX. Showing the clerk or their supervisor, either your FFL or the federal statues won't get the gun shipped. You must have a commerical account with them in advance of shipping any kind of firearm, modern or antique. Recommend you check again with UPS in Oregon and ask them what is their specific objection, or try another UPS store farther out in the sticks. Only limitation I am aware with USPS is generally the package length or weight, but if it is a genuine Confederate documented musket, you will want to insure it for its replacement value not any sentimental value.

[Curt]

Hallo!

Federal laws are quite clear on "antiques" not being firearms.
Many states follow the same language. Some do not.
Some cities also have their own versions and interpretation.

UPS follows suit. However, as already shared, individual store clerks and individual store managers may not be aware of their own company rules. And as shared, "franchised" UPS "stores" may have anti "gun" owners that set their own policies or rules that are different than the UPS company.

I used to go into my UPS facility with xeroxes of their rules jus tin case I ran into a problem. After a dozen or so "non firearm" or antique or reproduction of antiques they knew me "on sight" and there were no further problems.

As already shared, many recommend not giving business to an "anti gun" company like UPS in general, and going to FedEx or USPS.

Excellent advice about your box and packaging. I hasd a nephew work in a UPS shipping facility and the stories he told... :( :( NOT as bad as things from China, that start out as an right angular box and arrive beat up and as rounded as a bed pillow.


Curt

[PoorJack]

I have quite a few toys in the wood shop and I'm going to make a shipping "crate" to send to the uncle. Said crate will be made from 1/4in plywood with heavily reinforced corners and extra bracing and sheathed in corrugated board. When sealed, it'll look like any other corrugated box, but that's just the outside. It should withstand pretty much anything short of a kamakazi fork lift hit.

[Muley Gil]

"As long as it involves an antique firearm (made before 1898)..."

No, it is pre 1899, not pre 1898.

[jonk]

I strongly suggest just taking it to the post office and insuring for the proper dollar amount. To do that you have to know what it is. There's some difference in value depending on model of course, and condition is paramount. Could be a $200 relic condition gun with no usable parts, or a $10,000 museum piece.

Post office regs specifically prohibit postal employees other than district managers or inspectors or whatever from ruling on whether or not a gun is mailable, and they aren't even supposed to ask what is in the box. Sometimes they do and get freaky, but a call to district manager usually straightens that right out.