Who makes a good repro

[Longhunter]

Wich company makes the better repro rifles Armisport or EuroArms and any reasons why ?

[RaiderANV]

There's ah reason why it's been 3 hours and no bites on this question. Sorta like that Pandora’s Box deal.

Yer best off doin' ah search on this topic as it's been covered before.

And you'd have to be ah wee bit more specific as well. Which Model? What ya usin' it fer? Huntin', N-SSA, Runnin' ah-round ah field shootin' blanks & fallin' down playin' dead with the rest of da boys?

[Longhunter]

Looking to maybe compete and possible hunt with what ever I buy maybe even get out onto the field and fall down and play dead sometime s. If I buy would like it to be a close as possible to original confguration be it a enfield or springfield looking at the 2 band enfield but I like the springfield also . The zouaves are a bit cheaper but they always seemed real farby a few that I shot seemed to do all rifght at 50 yds and has its possiblities . Maybe I need to have one each :D but at this point I guess that wont happen

[Norm Gibson, 4901V]

I am not sure but I believe reenactors use three band muskets. If you are going to hunt a shorter rifle makes it easier to get around in the brush. Just a couple of thoughts.

[Longhunter]

I can see what you might be trying to say some units want you to use the weapon of their choice, what the unit of the day would have used and to keep a standard, not wanting everyone picking or chooseing a diff weapon configuratioin . This would be for target compition and hunting more and for my living history I do blacksmithing and a good friend has gotten me into doing some diff events we demo blacksmithing for the general public

[Ken Hansgen, 11094]

About 1994 I borrowed a M1861 Springfield made by Armi-Sport to shoot with the intention that I might buy it. After many misfires I took out the lock and saw the guts were junk. I had been shooting Euroarms Enfields (2-band and musketoon) successfully so am now prejudiced, tho' I understand Armi-Sports have in general improved since.

[Minieball577]

Campaigners do not require three band rifle muskets, but most "mainstream events" do.

For competition, buy whatever you like. In my experience though, the "who makes the best" on rifles and muskets varies depending on the model.

ken's view on the lock of 1861 Armi-Sports is not an isolated incident, to be sure. BUT the lock parts on the 1842 Armi-Sport are pretty darn good. I fiddled with mine a little bit when I got it to get a good trigger pull, and have not had to mess with it since, and that was back in 1996 or 97.

[Longhunter]

Ok so if I want a 1861 model Springfield Euroarms would be a better choice perhaps then who would be a better choice on the 1853 3 band Enfield and the 1858 2 band Enfield ?

[Eric A. Savickas, 08663V]

The drop in comb is completely different between a Springfield and an Enfield. Shoulder each to see which one would be more comfortable for you. How it fits you can make a difference!

[Longhunter]

Yea I noticed that back when I was looking at some I think the enfield fit me better if I recall

[S.Sullivan]

You may wish to look for and join the Authentic Campaigner on the web. Once you join you can access their bulletin board and use their search engine to research what those fellows feel are the merits of the guns you are studying. They are reenactors, not that some do not live fire or hunt, but have many opinions of weapons and brand names. You may find what you seek.
I would suggest however you do not post your question there as it is the type of question that may bring unpleasent replies headed your way at great velocity.
From my own experience, the one constant about Italian made muskets of any manufacturer or barrel length is inconsistancy. Any two from the same maker may look alike but function differently. The quality control differs greatly from batch to year, greatly. If possible, find a place to "try" several muskets to your shoulder, like a big reenactment with sellers (sutlers) on sight. Some times it is the feel rather than the brand.
S.Sullivan

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

While comfortable on the shoulder, the Enfield is sometimes not comfortable to shoot live rounds. Most US shooters are used to the drop in the stock. When they shoot the Enfield, they hold the gun the same way. Heavy loads tend to bruise their cheek, under their eye.

Since you say you intend to hunt with it, I thought you might like to know this.

I have heard good things about the Pedersoli repros as to quality, but this is not from experience. They cost more so maybe they are better. All of the repros can be made to shoot, I believe. It just takes patience and time to work it up, tune the lock, harden the lock internals and finding the right size bullet, etc.

[Eric A. Savickas, 08663V]

I can vouch for Pedersoli firearms, I have a Remington rolling block baby carbine, the bore in it is like all the Pedersoli's I've seen. Mirror finish on all of them. Fit and finish is of top quality.

[Minieball577]

All of the repros can be made to shoot, I believe. It just takes patience and time to work it up, tune the lock, harden the lock internals and finding the right size bullet, etc.

I completely agree with this.

[Longhunter]

[Edwin Flint, 8427 wrote:
All of the repros can be made to shoot, I believe. It just takes patience and time to work it up, tune the lock, harden the lock internals and finding the right size bullet, etc.

Yea Im not afraid of doing some work ,ive made a few tools and knives I had to harden can you tell me if the steel they use has enough carbon content in it to harden and quench in oil and then temper it back or is this a place to use kasenite?

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

I use kasenit. Seems to work best for me. Not sure about their steel's carbon content.

[Longhunter]

Ok thats what I figured , Ive never tried the stuff ,do you polish things up pretty good then after you do this so your tumbler and sear work nice ?

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

I use a emery embedded rubber wheel on my dremel tool and polish to a fine glossy finish. Then follow the directions on the kasenit. So Far, never had one break or wear out. I usually treat it 3-5 times. I also before hardening shorten the shelf on the tumbler to reduce creep. I harden tumbler and the sear.
There is a very good article on the NW Territory web site on lock tuning. I think you might want to take a good look at it before you start.

[Longhunter]

Thanks for the info guys . Edwin that site looks like good info

[Southron Sr.]

1. Pedersoli makes the best M1861 repro. The trouble is that the price is high. If you want quasity, you will have to pay for it.

2. The early Parker-Hale, two band Naval Rifles are of very good quality-the ones actually made in England, not the latter production ones made in Italy. Avoid the 3 band P-H P-53 Enfields (made in England) because it has a two piece stock joined under the rear band. These stocks have a tendency to separate after a while.

By the way, the P-H Naval Rifles are usually very accurate because they use a heavy barrel and 5 land and groove rifling. They also have "one piece" stocks. I ahve owned several over the years, and all have been excellent shooters.

3. As far as I am concerned, the ONLY WAY one should buy a repro is to go to a Skirmish or Re-enactment where Sutlers have a lot of the arms on display for sale. Here is what you should check for:

(A) Carefully examine each gun on display to find the one that is "best." I.E., Even guns made on the same production line in the same factory on the same cay can vary somewhat in the quality department.

(B) Check the "wood to metal fit," start by looking at the bolster area. This is where all three parts of the musket "come together," the lock, stock and barrel. The fit should be flawless, in other words, no gaps between the bottom of the bolster and the bolster notch in the lock plate. No gaps between the rear of the bolster and thw wood of the stock, etc.

(C) Take a careful look at the fit of the barrel bands, the trigger guard, nose cap and buttplate. There should be no "gaps" in the wood to metal fit.

(D) Cycle the lock several times. Even brand new, the trigger pull shouldn't be over 8 or 9 pounds. Don't worry if the trigger pull weight is 5 or 6 pounds, a "lock job" can get it down to 3 or 4 pounds.

(E) Make sure the "Half-Cock" notch works. IF the lock is placed in the "Half-Cock" notch, pulling the trigger should not cause the hammer to fall. If it does, then the lock is defective.

(F) Using a bore light, take a GOOD, CAREFUL LOOK at the bore. It should be bright and shiny with no rust present, distinct lands and grooves, etc.

(G) The "trick" is to look at all of those above metioned "little things" when buying a new repro. With a little practice, you will be able to pick out the BEST gun in a rack of seemingly identical (at first glance) repro muskets.

GOOD LUCK!

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Edwin Flint, 8427
I use kasenit. Seems to work best for me. Not sure about their steel's carbon content.

http://www.armisport.com/eng/produzione_01.htm

http://www.microfond.it/mim_metal_injec ... ulding.htm (http://www.microfond.it/mim_metal_injection_moulding.htm)

http://www.microfond.it/microfusion_mim_process.htm

I don't know whether you can rely on the assumption that Armisport's internal lock parts are high carbon steel since they use zinc die-casting for their parts that are not CNC-machined. That said, the most typical alloy used by industry with zinc die-casted parts is malleble iron because it has a .01% shrinkage, is easily milled, and can also be hardened to a Brinell hardness of 110 to 156 (Rockwell B of 65 to 80). That is, if it's not Zamak-3 (a zinc alloy), which contains .01% iron or just enough to be magnetic? "Hi-Point" firearms commonly use Zamak-3 for receivers and slides on their automatic pistols and carbines.

Richard McAuley, 3014V
37th GA