Firearm Dimensions

[Michael Bodner]

I want to be able to learn as much as possible in order to detect "fake" or parts guns from originals. As part of that effort, is the N-SSA Inspectors book (the one with the dimensions) available ??

Thanks

-Mike

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

You may be out of luck here, as N-SSA arms inspectors, we do not look at individual parts as fakes but as reproductions. One is a good as the other. These reproductions are acceptable in our sport. If you want hands on knowledge of reproductions vs originals, I suggest you come and spend some time at the Small Arms Inspections held at our national events. Anyone is invited to come in and see what we do, and ask questions. It is here you may learn the knowledge you seek.

[Michael Bodner]

Thanks Bruce. I guess I should be a little more clear. In my travels and adventures, I occasionally come across a muzzle-stuffer. They're great prices for originals, lousy for repros. I want to educate myself, and have a handy reference guide that I can study/carry around so when I do find something, I can look it up and decide on the spot if I should "Go for it". mostly, I'm concerned about guns that have been pieced together and are not true to the original. You know - "Great Uncle Johnny went and filed off the front site and added his own" or is this the right hammer for this lock, or shouldn't this stock have a steel nosecap.

As one would expect, the internet is in general about as much help as a third leg when it comes to getting 'correct' answers (sometimes).

Experience has to start somewhere, and a handy reference guide is a good place. I suppose if anyone knows of a gook reference book, that would be OK too.

Thanks much!!

-Mike

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

Flayderman's Antique American Firearms is about as good a reference you can get. Combine that with Dixie, for its inspectors marks and you are about as well equipped as you can be.

It Takes time and patience and getting burned a few times. You learn to look at fit, screws, signs of polish marks, where proof and names have been altered/removed,etc. If they will not let you remove lock and barrel to look at the internals and underneath, back off. Also, Repros have metric threads, learn to spot the difference. Some stores sell a guage to find out what type screws you need. Doesn't hurt to have ine of them.

[John Holland]

Mike,

The advice given by both Bruce and Ed is very good. BUT, you just can't beat first hand experience! You must know some collectors, hook yourself up with them...go to as many antique arms shows that you possibly can, and ask questions. Ask the dealers to let you handle the arms, have your friends explain them to you. I don't mean to sound imperious, but you are going to have to educate yourself. I've been doing this for....well....a lot of years, and am still learning all the time!

Best wishes on your fact seeking mission!

John Holland

[R. McAuley 3014V]

John,

What issue might the SAC have with an original Gallager carbine (SN 165XX) that was nickeled-plated? Not that it is known whether it was one of the Bannerman guns, the fact that everything was nickeled, it is still a CW carbine. Would this finish necessary disqualify it from N-SSA use?

Richard McAuley, 3014V
37th GA

[John Holland]

Richard,

External finish is not an issue with the Small Arms Committee.

Here's one we don't encourage, but did allow:

We were approached by a competitor who was also an avid hunter. He had sort of permanently "Camo'd" his Parker Hale carbine that he used for skirmishing. He approached us a bit sheepishly and asked if he could use on the line. We told him it could be as ugly as he wanted. We did hear later that he had trouble finding it every time he set it down.....

John Holland
SAC

[williamslaybaugh]

Michael,

I agree with the above it is a long road. This won't make it any less work, but it may help to get into shape. Nothing beats first hand experience no question about it. Unfortunately collector shows and shoots are only so often. The internet is a good somewhat easy way to start your own reference book. Flayderman's is a starting point but it is general and the pricing is very vague and some times out of date.

For me, I have several dealer and auction sites that I visit more frequently than I'd like to say. Most I have never bought anything from. I do though collect from them images of interest, descriptions, and pricing. It's a good way to get an idea of whats out there, whats selling and how long its been for sale. Organized into files, I can go back and get a fairly up to date look at most of what I'm interested in. From junker cut offs to never issued and way out of my price range.

It's a good everyday supplement anyway.

[RaiderANV]

And the best advise,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


STAY AH-WAY FROM starr carbines. That's just ah no win e-der-way :wink:

[Michael Bodner]

Well, I guess I'm learning!! I didn't know about Flaydermans books.

Is this a 'good' one to get?

http://www.amazon.com/Flaydermans-Antiq ... 873493133# (http://www.amazon.com/Flaydermans-Antique-American-Firearms-Values/dp/0873493133#)

Seems likes is really large (>600 pages) and softcover. For <$10 sounds like a good deal. Do they have pictures, etc that indentify the correct configurations for each model and year? In other words, would I correctly learn that a 1861 model Springfield has a rounded front barrel band that is screwed together (not rivited)? BTW: I just made that stuff up - I have no idea if its correct and that's my whole point!!

Thanks guys!!

-Mike

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

They have pictures and good descriptions. They have most everything you need. They don't have all of the little nuances that the experts can tell you about but it should keep you out of major trouble.