Unidentified Mark

[B-Davis]

To All,

I have been cleaning the stock to a Common Rifle and when I removed the brown paint, this Mark appeared at the bottom of the trigger guard. Now the Rifke also has a U.S. Inspectors cartouch on the side of the stock. I do not think it is a carving, it is too uniform and clean.

Anybody have an idea of what it may be? Most of the parts are also stamped "IX" in which the "I" is started toward the "X". I assume these are assembly marks, but I am not familiar with the star stamp. Sorry, I intinally uploaded the wrong picture.

[Curt]

Hallo!

To out of focus for my poor small monitor...

Curt

[Jack C., 69th NY]

That mark seems to have been used on various firearms but no one knows for sure it's origen. I had a Spencer carbine that had the same marking in at least seven locations both on the wood and metal. Take a look at these photose of that Spencer. Lots of ideas but nothing definite. Look here:http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,50075.0.html (http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,50075.0.html)

[Lou Lou Lou]

Could it be the chrysanthemum (sp) symbol of the Japanese emperor?

[MR. GADGET]

That mark is also on some WWII and WWI Enfield SMLE rifles for a model or pattern.
But it is hard to see it clear.

[B-Davis]

For some reason, I doubt the Asian theory. The only reason I say this is because the rifle has the Roman numeral "IX" marked on EVERYTHING. Where it was to small to mark in Roman numerals, it has the standard (Arabic) number 9, such as as on screw heads. I have attached a photo of the inside of the patchbox as an example. Many websites claim this is a Confederate trademark, where small armories marked the rifles in batches as they did conversions. I am not claiming it is definitely a Confederate conversion, but it is interesting.
3193

[Kevin Tinny]

Please, up front, I am not a collector.

But I have seen roman numerals on other CW era arms, usually Confederate. The expert with the arms said such numerals were assembly marks so that hand fitted parts could be correctly assembled after finishing.

Regards,
Kevin Tinny

[Kevin Tinny]

I just Googled rifle proof marks and the symbol shown on the CAS/SSS Forum address above appears to be a British inspector's mark, not a proof mark, per Track of The Wolf's "image" on Google images.

Regards,
Kevin Tinny

[le piaf]

A friend of mine stamp similar "flower" on his collector gun when they have not serial numbers ; it's to help to identify if they are stolen.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

The trouble with so many of the marks found on antique firearms is apart from those marks associated with the proofing or inspection process, many of these other obscure marks could have been added at any time afterwards, and could even be of modern origin. The fact that you can still purchase steel stamps with a 8-pointed asterisk (even though the 5 and 6-pointed asterisk is the more common), means the asterisk mark could have been added at anytime after the specimen was made and is not necessarily a military-related marking.

[Jim Leinicke 7368V]

Just looking at the stock, that appears to be an R. and J.D. Johnson common rifle. Am I correct, or is it the work of another contractor?

Jim Leinicke
7368V

[B-Davis]

You are correct, Sir! How did you know?

[R. McAuley 3014V]

You are correct, Sir! How did you know?

U.S. Model 1817 "Common Rifle" that was manufactured by Robert and John D. Johnson in Middletown, Connecticut, in 1824. This rifle was manufactured during the first year of Johnsons' five year U.S. contact for 3,000 Model 1817 rifles. The lock plate is stamped with the early style markings that consist of the date "1824" over "MIDDn CONN" in a curve behind the hammer and "U.S./R & J.D. JOHNSON" in two lines in front of the hammer. The barrel tang is dated "1824". The barrel is stamped with "US" over an indented "P" proof mark and the Ordnance sub-inspector's initials "JN" perpendicular to the axis of the bore. A "VT." (Vermont) property mark is stamped just ahead of the proof and inspection marks. A small "W" sub-inspection mark is stamped on the left barrel flat and on the rear of the left stock flat. An Ordnance final inspection mark consisting of two script initials with an oval border is stamped on the left stock flat. "U.S." is stamped on the heel of the buttplate. An asterisk is stamped on the underside of the stock behind the trigger guard finial. The rifle has a round barrel with dove-tail mounted iron front sight and dove-tail mounted fixed v-notch rear sight. The lock plate has a rounded rear and beveled front with detachable brass pan and reinforced hammer. The rifle has the distinctive iron trigger guard with trigger guard plate that forms a pistol grip which supports the sling swivel and large oval iron patch box. The stock is secured by three spring fastened barrel bands. The rifle has an iron ramrod with brass trumpet-head. The barrel, trigger guard, patch box and buttplate have a brown lacquer finish. The lock plate, hammer and frizzen are casehardened. The barrel bands, band springs and side plate are bright.

[B-Davis]

Richard,

You hit the nail on the head, and described it perfectly! The only diffrence is now it has the Roman Numerals and has a drum conversion done to it.

Bryan

[Kevin Tinny]

So....Can anyone please indicate the meaning of the asterisk on the stock? Tx. Kevin