Richmond Carbine load

[Des]

I recently acquired a JRA Richmond Carbine. I just came from the range and at 50 yards I can keep them in the 9/10 ring with a Hogdon bullet and 42 gr of Goex 3f. At 100 yards I can not hit the paper target. I would be able to possibly hit a 55 gal drum half the time. Any suggestions? Do I need to increase the powder charge for 100 yards? If so any recommendations?

Thanks

Des

[Joe Plakis, 9575V]

How thin is the skirt on your hogdon mold? The reason I ask is that the original ones out had a smaller base plug and had the same issues at 100yards.

It wasn't until we installed a bigger, deeper base plug that we had good results at 100yards

I shoot 46 grains of 3f with my Richmond.

[Des]

The mold I have I bought new about 5 years ago. It works fine with the 42 gr load in two of my muskets both at 50 and 100. The carbine just didn't do well at 100. The target did not show any signs of bullet yaw. The holes appeared to be perfect circles

[Maillemaker]

I shoot 46 grains 3F Goex in my JRA Richmond Carbine with Hoyt barrel with the RCBS Hodgdon bullet sized to .576.

Last weekend I shot 8 consecutive pigeons at 50 yards and missed my 9th and final shot. But I failed to medal in individuals at 50 or 100 yards. :( But, I think I screwed myself at the 50 yard individual. I am very certain I blew the black out of my target but I pulled it without looking at it very hard and when I tried to piece the shreds back together you could not make out but 4 of the bullet hits in the black. So I only got scored for 4 hits. I should have called for a line judge when it was still on the cardboard. Oh well.

I'll have to some testing at 100 yards to see how I do, but I'm pretty sure I hit the paper reasonably well.

Steve

[mpapajoffre]

I have a JRA Richmond. It has a 33" barrel. Is this the carbine model?

[Des]

What you have is a Richmond rifle. The carbine has a shorter barrel of about 26 inch

[mpapajoffre]

OK, thank you. I shoot the hodgdon sized at .576 with 42 grns of 3f. The rifle is zeroed at 100 yds and I have to hold low 5" to break pigeons at 50. This musket is a real tack driver.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

I recently acquired a JRA Richmond Carbine. I just came from the range and at 50 yards I can keep them in the 9/10 ring with a Hogdon bullet and 42 gr of Goex 3f. At 100 yards I can not hit the paper target. I would be able to possibly hit a 55 gal drum half the time. Any suggestions? Do I need to increase the powder charge for 100 yards? If so any recommendations?

Thanks

Des

Des, are you using the same sight picture or a different sight picture for 50 and 100 yards (i.e. 6 o'clock hold for 50, and 12 o'clock hold for 100)? I use a slightly lighter load of 40 grains of Goex triple fine with both my S&S/EOA Richmond Carbine and '55 Rifle (Whitacre bbl), and previously used the same load with my P/60 Enfield relined by Hoyt. With each, I use a 6 o'clock hold at 50 yards (as deep as I can see the top of the front sight blade at the bottom of the backsight vee) and 12 o'clock hold for 100 (top of the front sight level with the top of the backsight vee), and get the same results whether using the Hodgdon or Rapine/Lyman 320 WC. Last skirmish, my C.S. Richmond shot high at 50 yards but it was also just above freezing (maybe 40 deg?) making the bullet lube rather stiff and difficult to load. Practically had to pound my rounds down.

If you use the same sight picture for 50 and 100, then you will probably need to increase the powder charge for 100 by maybe 5 grains? It's still a relatively flat trajectory.

[Des]

I was thinking of stepping up the 100 yd load but the fact that I couldn't even hit paper bothered me. It isn't like it was just shooting low but they are all over the place high, low, left, and right. I would be lucky to hit a 55 gallon drum. I am not used to it being that far off. I use a 6 oclock hold at 50 yds and have a peep sight. A 100 yds holding at dead center or 12 oclock accuracy is non existant. I beginning to think I like my Sharps better. I get better accuracy at 50 with the JR carbine but the Sharps will keep them all in the target at 100.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

I was thinking of stepping up the 100 yd load but the fact that I couldn't even hit paper bothered me. It isn't like it was just shooting low but they are all over the place high, low, left, and right. I would be lucky to hit a 55 gallon drum. I am not used to it being that far off. I use a 6 oclock hold at 50 yds and have a peep sight. A 100 yds holding at dead center or 12 oclock accuracy is non existant. I beginning to think I like my Sharps better. I get better accuracy at 50 with the JR carbine but the Sharps will keep them all in the target at 100.

You say they are "all over the place... high, low, left, and right." If I might suggest experimenting with one of the fixed rifle rests, like the Lead Sled, etc, that you can fix the stock in place and rotate the bed upwards to load and back horizontal to shoot, much like a fixed mechanical rest. Try distances at 25 yards first, then increase to 50 to see the group open up and finally at 100 to better visually ascertain where the bullets are printing on paper without any "human" interference (i.e. heartbeat, visually aligning sights, breathing, shakes, etc.). Once you have determined where the carbine groups on paper, you can better adjust the powder charge and sights accordingly. It's not unlike shooting in a long range muzzleloading match. If you don't have a 200 yards zero as a baseline, you won't ever find paper at 300, 600 or 1000. Use the mechanical rest as a baseline.

[Des]

At 50 yards I get a group the size of a golf ball

[John Bly]

More powder, especially if it is a multi-groove barrel. Go to around 48-50 grains to see if does any better.

[Des]

Is that unusual to use two different loads one for 50 and a heavier charge for 100 or will the heavier load work well for both? I will try at both ranges but am curious what others have done.

[ian45662]

I have tried a couple different Semi wad cutter type bullets at 100 yards and I have never had groups good enough that I would feel comfortable using in a skirmish. I am sure that there are some that are doing it with good results but I have never been able to do it. My suggestion to you would be to try a "big" minie. I love the lyman 510 grain minie for 100 yards. I hit a 4" tile at 100 yards with one at the early bird and it only took me 1 try. I have never even tried shooting a 50 yard target at 100 yards until then. I have a bullet for 50 and a bulet for 100. It may be worth noting I am talking about a musket BUT I don't think there will be much difference

[Des]

In my musket I shoot The same load I was shooting in the carbine and it does fine ( when I do my part) at 50 and 100 yards. That is why the carbine is so puzzling. The Sharps rifle and carbine shoot good at both 50 and 100 with same loads ( different bullet)

[jonk]

I'm on the same team as the previous poster. I won't deny he's a better 100 yard hitter than I am, 90% of the time. You might want to try a bigger minie- or at least one with better ballistic coefficients.

That said, I've put a few shots with the Hodgdon on top of each other at 100 yards on paper, and at the last skirmish hit my first one at 100 with the Hodgdon.

Then again I've also gone 3/5 using the little 315 minie that my teammate says doesn't work for him at 100.

So much is dependent on the gun that it isn't even funny.

I would note however that I am using the modified core pin as sold by NE trader. It makes a deeper base and slightly thinner skirt.

I would also up the charge. I saw the Hodgdon really tighten up once I passed 45 grains and settled on 48 as my general load. But I know guys using 40 grains with it. Again, it just really depends on your gun. Don't be afraid to push the charge. I'd try 44, 46, 48, and 50 grains and see if it doesn't tighten up for you.

[Des]

I will try increasing the charge and see how that works. If it doesn't then the carbine will just be reserved for when I do living history exhibits.

[ian45662]

Do you know what the rate of twist is for your musket and your richmond carbine?

[Des]

No I do not know. I have been told that Hoyt rifled the barrels for James River Armory

[mpapajoffre]

I spoke with the owner of JRA recently as I wanted some info about my Richmond rifle. He said the barrels were made by Euroarms out of 4140 steel, and rifled by Hoyt. The rifling twist is 1-60", 7 lands and grooves.

[John Holland]

The JRA barrels made by Euroarms, and rifled by R.A. Hoyt, are nearly indestructible as muzzle loading barrels because they are made from machine gun grade steel.

[Des]

It may well be indestructible as if it wont shoot at 100 yards I am done shooting it so it should last forever

[John Holland]

So, then it is back to a "Living History" event prop, too bad.

[ian45662]

Try the heavy bullet the 510 minie with 45 grains. I bet it will shoot great