New guy here: ? about Sharps reproductions

[Moonpie]

Greeting to the forum. Brand new guy here. Long time shooter and reloader both BP and smokeless. Also cast my own RB's for C&B revolvers and smokeless bullets.
I was hoping to learn from you experienced Sharps shooters here.
I'd like to get into the game with an 1859/63 reproduction. I've never even held one of these so I know nothing.
I want to shoot live ammo. Not competitively(not yet anyway ) just general target and hunting.
At this time, all I'm seeing is either Pedersoli or Armi-Sport. Yes, I know about the Shiloh but they're as unpossible to locate as unicorn teeth.
Which Italian gun do you recommend?
Carbine or rifle? I read something about the rifle versions not allowing the "chamber insert" to be removed for cleaning but the carbines do?
I'm not set on either carbine or rifle yet so what advantage does one version have over the other as a shooter?
What caliber, exactly, are these? I've already decided to get a Moose Mold and cast my own as soon as I know for sure which one to buy. Do the Ped and A-S use the same bullet?

Where do you folks get your musket caps? I'm way down here in Texas and far from any matches/vendors.

Forgive me if this post is in the incorrect forum.

Thank You

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Long before I joined the NSSA I got an IAB Sharps, and after getting it relined and a chamber job years later, it shot pretty well. But along the way I got introduced to Maynards which I found out were a lot more fun to shoot. The Maynards use a brass cartridge and percussion caps and for all practical purposes the cases last just about forever and don't need to be resized. They are every bit as authentic as a Sharps and the ammo is much easier to load, especially for someone like you who casts your own bullets. Once you get hooked on the Maynards, you'll never want to shoot a Sharps. Another gun that you could consider is the Smith. There are reproductions currently around and this gun is a lot of fun as well. So if your main objective is to get into carbine shooting, then there are alternatives to the Sharps. If you are set on having a Sharps, I would go with the Pedersoli over the Armi-Sport. I have sold all my repro Sharps and the only Sharps left are originals which don't get shot. But I have lots of Maynards both old and new and they get shot all the time.

[Greg Ogdan 110th OVI]

I have s Pedersoli Sharps Infantry rifle which shoots lights out. Would love to hunt with is, but sadly, Ohio does not allow that. Definitely go with the Pedersoli. You can shoot pure lead of, is it's a little harder, it should not make a difference. My fun likes 50 gr of FFg Goex; shoots to the sights at 50 yds and 1 click up the ladder works for 100 yds.
If you shoot much, you will probably wand to do an O ring conversion as you may be gas cutting the pressure plate. Probably don't really need to spend the money with Mr. Hahn as there are several others who will do a creditable job for you.


Greg

[jonk]

Definitely the Pedersoli over the Armi Sport or IAB.

As to carbine/rifle, your choice depending on what you like to shoot.

Some tips.

1. The chamber inserts you mention are part of the gas seal system. It's a floating tube that pushes back against the gas plate on the block. Some come out, some don't. I pull mine once a year to clean and regrease. You need a special tool to do so.
2. The block modification that has been mentioned is something some skirmishers find they need. I never found I did. Just fill the block with high pressure synthetic grease and you're good to go.
3. They get a bit iffy on ignition. I found I had to drill out my nipples with a #54 bit to get reliable ignition.
4. You can roll your own tubes, or buy them from Charlie Hahn. Or, if not skirmishing, you can use loose powder in the chamber. Push in the bullet, fill with powder, good to go.
5. As with any other gun, some guys like 2f, some 3f, some light charges, some heavy, some goex, some swiss, etc. Same with lead. My pedersoli actually prefers hard-ish lead over soft.
6. I believe the .54 is the most popular caliber, some .52s I think are out there too. Naturally slug your bore. I shoot a .5405 bullet and the grooves on the rifling measure .539 or so.
7. Cleaning them is a royal PITA.

[Moonpie]

Thanks for the replies.


Definitely the Pedersoli over the Armi Sport or IAB.

As to carbine/rifle, your choice depending on what you like to shoot.

Some tips.

1. The chamber inserts you mention are part of the gas seal system. It's a floating tube that pushes back against the gas plate on the block. Some come out, some don't. I pull mine once a year to clean and regrease. You need a special tool to do so.
Where does one get this special tool?

2. The block modification that has been mentioned is something some skirmishers find they need. I never found I did. Just fill the block with high pressure synthetic grease and you're good to go.
When you say "fill the block" what exactly does this mean? Smear grease between the plate and the breech block?

3. They get a bit iffy on ignition. I found I had to drill out my nipples with a #54 bit to get reliable ignition.
Not a problem. Have the tools.

4. You can roll your own tubes, or buy them from Charlie Hahn. Or, if not skirmishing, you can use loose powder in the chamber. Push in the bullet, fill with powder, good to go.
Already roll tubes for a Charleville musket. Been reading/watching vids on Sharps cartridge making. Seems easy enough.

5. As with any other gun, some guys like 2f, some 3f, some light charges, some heavy, some goex, some swiss, etc. Same with lead. My pedersoli actually prefers hard-ish lead over soft.
I use three types of metal in my cast bullets: Pure(dead soft)lead, Hard cast, and what I call "soft cast" which is mostly pure with a little alloy in it(just a little hardness).

6. I believe the .54 is the most popular caliber, some .52s I think are out there too. Naturally slug your bore. I shoot a .5405 bullet and the grooves on the rifling measure .539 or so


7. Cleaning them is a royal PITA.
Really? Worse than a typical Hawken or other side lock?

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Jonk,

You and Greg gave some good insights to our prospective Sharps shooter. I have to agree with you on 3 and 7 as I found them to be finicky with ignition and a lot more work to clean than any other CW gun that I have ever shot. I had a Pedersoli Model 1859 Infantry carbine and it was a great shooter. However, I discovered the Ballard, and cut the Sharps loose. I shot the Pedersoli bullet sized to around .540, but I believe some of the other carbines need a larger bullet, around .545". I do still have two Pedersoli Sharps, but they are both 45/70 cartridge guns. They are easy to load, easy to clean, and fun to shoot.

The Sharps design was a pretty early one for breech loaders and by the late 1850's there were better approaches to getting a good gas seal in a breech loader. Using a metallic cartridge to seal the breech seemed to work the best in my opinion. The other advantage to the metallic cartridges was durability. Paper cartridges are rather flimsy and prone to breaking. That is why the more successful Sharps ammo was linen cartridges. During the War, Sharps had a history of locking up during use. There were stories of soldiers peeing in the breech area to get the breech to open when the guns got hot. One of my original Sharps still has marks on the top of the breech block where the user had to beat on the block to get the gun to open.

[jonk]

Filling the breech block means just what you suggest- filling the area under the gas plate with grease. McMaster Carr makes some that's widely considered the best for the job. Will end seizing of the block pretty fast. Just don't get any in the flash channel.

Yeah, worse than a side lock Hawken. The spark has to travel down the nipple, turn left to go through the breech, turn right to exit the flashhole, and still burn through the base of the cartridge to ignite. Whereas a hawken just makes one turn and voila, there's the powder. Flash channel is probably 10 times as long with an extra turn.

[Moonpie]

Filling the breech block means just what you suggest- filling the area under the gas plate with grease. McMaster Carr makes some that's widely considered the best for the job. Will end seizing of the block pretty fast. Just don't get any in the flash channel.
This is why I asked here. Excellent bit of info. Exactly which one tho? The McM-C website shows many different anti-seize greases. I've used the copper based stuff at work and it is an unholy mess to get on things.

Yeah, worse than a side lock Hawken. The spark has to travel down the nipple, turn left to go through the breech, turn right to exit the flashhole, and still burn through the base of the cartridge to ignite. Whereas a hawken just makes one turn and voila, there's the powder. Flash channel is probably 10 times as long with an extra turn.
Bummer. I'm a big fan of hot soapy water and toothbrushes. Run a pair of Walker-Colt's. Cleaning time is always....er.....fun. LoL.
I take it pipe cleaners are going to be my newest friend.

[jonk]

Bummer. I'm a big fan of hot soapy water and toothbrushes. Run a pair of Walker-Colt's. Cleaning time is always....er.....fun. LoL.
I take it pipe cleaners are going to be my newest friend.


Well... to be fair, the pipe cleaners are only needed down the flash channel, and there is a clean out screw. The rest can be done with water and a toothbrush. And, on the plus side, having a removable breech block means you can clean the receiver and barrel itself really easily.

I can do it at home with running water in 10 minutes, in the field it takes about half an hour.

Usual routine:
1. Take off nipple.
2. Open action. Remove take out pin.
3. Slide out breech block.
4. Pry off gas plate, get out metal gas plate spacer washer, take out clean out screw.
5. Toss in bucket to soak, while I clean the receiver and barrel. Toothbrush and rod with jag. Dry barrel/reciever, lightly oil.

Back to the breech block.
1. Scrub all surfaces with hot water.
2. Use Q tip in bolster area under nipple.
3. Pipe cleaner for flash channel.
4. Dry externally. Squirt some WD 40 down flash channel to get out water.
5. Scrub gas block/washer. Dry.
6. Grease block, re-assemble washer/gas plate.
7. Put light dab of grease on clean out screw and nipple threads. Re-assemble.
8. If long term storage, spray some preservative oil into the block firing channel. Use degreaser on it and fire about 5 caps before live fire.

Once a year, pull the chamber insert, if it comes out. Tools are available from a variety of sources. I got mine on the board here, a variety of sutlers carry them. Clean, grease, reinsert.

It's not *that* bad, just more involved than a smith or maynard because you have to take the block apart each time.

[Moonpie]

Is the chamber insert removable on the carbine or rifle?
Been reading the rifle doesn't allow the insert to be removed?
I've found the little tool to remove the insert.

[Curt]

Hallo!

Just an aside...

Much can depend upon whether you get a new in the box one, or one from past years. The Italians have monkeyed with the original Sharps gas seal system and IIRC, have flipped flopped twice (?) on it once having copied the gas seal floating plate system and then later simply casting it as part of the breech block and going with the floating check which because of Italian QC issues sometimes floats and other times is stuck in place.

Dixie Guns Works and others carry the gas check tube removal tool. But depending upon QC of the piece in your hand, it may work or not in getting the tube out.

Being of historical bent, I favor the old "Garrett" Sharps carbines or rifles as they are the only repro's with a 'functional pellet primer' system as to save production costs the other makers (including Shiloh) simply make it a funky non historical to the original solid extension of the lockplate itself.

Aside from some work on the cone/nipple, ignition can be effected by what type of cartridge one uses. The "rubber or plastic tube insert cartridges tend to work best because they just dump their power into the chamber. Beyond that, lads are divided between the CW obsolete pre 1859 folded tail cartridges and the post 1859 formed tube cartridges.
What can sometimes happen... depending upon bulk and paper type... is that the breech block "crushes' the folded tail as it come up but rather than cut it cleanly and expose the powder to the flash, it cuts AND crushes the tail closed. Depending on the paper and the bulk, this can close off the cartridge and pushed it above the flash stream. Or, closes it down so that the flash does not get through to the powder as consistently as it should.

We use to have two Sharps shooters and six Smith shooters on the line. One could always tell when the Sharps fired as there was.. pop, pop,, pop, BOOM, pop, pop, BOOM! Etc., etc.

:) :)

Carbine over rifle? Dunno. IMHO, personal likes and dislikes. I had.. both. First a Sile carbine I swapped out a mint original Sharps lock and "patchbox" on, and a Garrett Rifle. Almost bought a Garrett Sharps Carbine 3-4 times. With hindsight, I should have put the original parts on a Shiloh. But went with a Yeck Smith for my wife, and one for me (pre Italian days).

;)

Curt

[hawkeye]

Just wanted to let you know that there are several NSSA skirmishers here in Texas. Most of us are in the San Antonio/Austin area and we conduct 4 skirmishes a year at our range just outside of San Antonio. We're having our first skirmish of the year on March 21-22. Several of us shoot Sharps, so if you'd like to come out and see them in action and talk about loads, etc. give me a shout at hawkeye78628@yahoo.com and we'll get you more info.

[Moonpie]

Are you the folks that shoot out by LaCoste?

[hawkeye]

Yep, that's us. If you know LaCoste, you must be from around there. Come on out and play with us.

[Fred Jr]

Sharps!!!!! Been using a Shiloh for 30+ years and I have never had ignition problems. It is a bit of a task load for but it keeps me out of the bars! Cleaning I don't feel is much harder than any firearm you want to keep clean. I use windex and have for ever. Was just at the range last week and I fired an 92 and a 90 at fifty Yds. I know a lot of the guys use the maynard but they feel like a BB gun to me!

Fred

12TH PA

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Fred,

The fast lock time for the Maynard is a huge advantage over other carbines. But if you can't shoot a Maynard, shoot a Smith.

[Fred Jr]

I understand that Jim, but they still feel like a BB gun to me!

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Fred,

That's why we have the BB gun competition for kids. The BB guns are excellent trainers for Maynards. If you practice with an air rifle, you too can become an expert Maynard shooter. It's never too late, Fred.

[Fred Jr]

This old man aint up for any changes! Of course it might be easier to hold up one of those tiny things since I'm getting weaker by the day! That's what I tell my wife so she won't make me do too much work!

[jonk]

Fred,

The fast lock time for the Maynard is a huge advantage over other carbines. But if you can't shoot a Maynard, shoot a Smith.

The fast lock time might aid in accuracy, but while you're extracting, I'm already chambering the next live round with the sharps. I can shoot about 1.5 times faster with my sharps, in terms of number of rounds down range, than I can with my smith, and I'd guess still a little faster than the maynard. So... assuming a good load and good hold, the sharps is going to be the better performing gun, lock time or no, assuming you can hold it tight.

I just never liked the maynard. Too light. Which isn't to say I wouldn't snap one up if I got a good price on it...

Go ahead, ask us which bullet lube is best next... ;)

[Eggman]

Do you remember "Old Yeller?" I still remember the devastated look on young Travis's (Tommy Kirk's) face when the awful verdict was declared on Old Yeller, and how I wept uncontrolably at the disasterous end of that hearbreaking movie. Truly tragic!
As I review other bad memories, the only comparable heart wrenching circumstances that pop into mind, at least from a spectator standpoint, all occured "on the line" at N-SSA skirmishes. Like the time in North Carolina, when a young lady was frozen out of the carbine match simply because her Sharps breachblock froze shut. Afterward, her face expressing a look of utter dismay and profound humiliation, she wandered around looking for someone to, as they say in Georgia, unloosen it for her. Subsequently she and her husband both moved to New York likely as a result of this episode.
Then there was the Pennsylvania Sharps practitioner attempting to participate in the carbine match at the national, I there assisting as safety officer. On termination of of the match I can still recall the visible tears streaming down the unfortunate fellow's face as he exited the firing line, the young man having not fired a shot -- all attempts being misfires.
I have to admit here that I blush when I recount my own experiences with that mysterious firearm, so we'll pass on that.
Yes the list goes on and on; so look hard and latch on to a Maynard as soon as you can.

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Eggman,

I saw a similar look on a child's face while watching AFV one time. The boy was outside playing with a cute little white mouse which was moving around on top of its cage. For some reason the boy moved away from the cage and all of a sudden there was this blur and the mouse was gone! I thought they had camera trouble, but no, a hawk had just swooped down and picked up the mouse for a take out dinner. The look on the boy's face was one of utter shock and dismay. I never did see what kind of look that the mouse had on his face, but I'll bet the hawk had a big smile.

I guess that all of us who have been on the skirmish line for the carbine event have seen all kind of interesting problems with guns over the years. I have seen my share of Sharps go pop pop a few times before they finally went boom. That long spark path and weaker caps can play havoc with ignition and your concentration. And the thought of flaming paper or cardboard in my barrel when I'm shoving the next round into the chamber doesn't excite me either. I spend a fair amount of time loading ammo and while I have the patience to pour powder into either plastic or metal tubes before completing the package with a bullet, I don't have the patience to mess with glue, paper, cardboard, and string just to make a cartridge for a gun. I tried it and I just didn't like it. I suspect that if the soldiers in the Union Army had to make their own Sharps ammo, the guns would have been much less popular. So I had my fling with the Sharps, and after begging the forgiveness of my Maynard for forsaking her for a couple of shoots, I have been faithful to my Maynards ever since. I say Maynards because I do have more than one. I guess that makes my a Maynard polygunist.

[Curt]

Hallo!

"Maynard!" -Robert Newton as Blackbeard

I had a nice original Maynard, with replacement barrel done by my pard (the late) Steven Jencso. I tried, but never could get "used to" such a "stripped down" gun.

Might as well shoot a Cosmopolitan/Gwynn & Campbell.

Plus, I would have had to grow my fingernails long on one hand to serve as a cartridge extractor. And wear a glove on the other. ;) :) :)

Just a-funnin' just a-funnin'...

Curt

[Greg Ogdan 110th OVI]

Gentlemen,

Bash the Sharps all you want, but argue this. My unit Carbine A team is half and half Sharps and Smiths and we're usually in the top 5 or so at Nationals. I should know because I'm the guy who went 4 for 4 on the B frame some years ago and cost us the gold by 6 seconds. Just sayin'

Greg

[jonk]

Gentlemen,

Bash the Sharps all you want, but argue this. My unit Carbine A team is half and half Sharps and Smiths and we're usually in the top 5 or so at Nationals. I should know because I'm the guy who went 4 for 4 on the B frame some years ago and cost us the gold by 6 seconds. Just sayin'

Greg

Well said, Greg. It's not for nothing that the top 3 shooters on our A team all shoot Sharps carbines; namely (in order) Ian, Eric, and myself. The next closest is 23 seconds behind us, and he shoots (IIRC) a Maynard, usually. Though sometimes he hauls out his stumpy little front stuffer.

Coincidence? I think not.

Then again, we don't win too many medals in carbine... and for some reason Ian is bound and determined to switch to a Gallagher this season.

[Eggman]

Yeah a plethora of those Sharps affacondos grouped up against us at Statesville, NC last year with the specific intent of proving the exception to the norm (by the way, the leader of the Sharps team was a fellow named Norm). These are unusual personages, something like those 7'9" players Kentucky deploys to the basketball court every year. They're not like the normal people you meet every day.

[Fred Jr]

You just have to raise the Sharps up correctly, feed it well and it will treat you with dignity and loyalty. I do have to agree with Jim that the ammo is a pain in the ass but as I said before it keeps out of the bars and my wife's hair. If I didn't have to take so long to find the target and get my worn down body to hold on the target I could shoot faster than most other types. The year we won the Nats we had 5 Sharps, 2 Smiths and one Maynard.

[Scott Harris]

If I remember correctly - the last two guns in the last man standing competition were a Sharps rifle and a Sharps carbine.

[John Holland]

Yes, and the Sharps Rifle won with the fine marksmanship of Dan Christiansen, of the 29th Wisconsin!

[Lou Lou Lou]

That Norm guy fro Egg's old team was second with the Sharps carbine as I remember.

[Phil Spaugy, 3475V]

One of the finest skirmish shots and competitors that I ever knew was Jerry Kozloski (sp) who used a CS Richmond carbine and shot on a number of the 6th Wisconsin National championship carbine companies. He was fast and rarely missed.

i guess what what I am saying is that in my humble opinion it's not the type of carbine, it's the quality of the shooter who pulls the trigger.

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Every carbine has its strengths and its drawbacks. Really great shooters can do well with carbines that lesser mortals are better off to stay away from.

As a shooter who is past 60, a good sight picture has become extremely important to me. With low light conditions, I can really struggle with targets with the wrong sights. My choice of guns is pretty much dictated by what I can see best. I have chosen to go with the First Model Maynard for the outstanding sight picture. The gun is harder to hold than a Sharps or a Smith but with practice and a good hold, I can shoot it quite comfortably. In addition, the ammo is easy to load, extraction is not an issue, and I don't have ignition problems, even with pistol caps. Most importantly, I really enjoy shooting it. You may shoot other guns when you are younger, but the First Model Maynard really starts looking good when you get older!

Other tricks that can be used include the Merit Optical Attachment which does an incredible job of eliminating front sight blur with open sights.

[Kevin Tinny]

Jim has shared a significant tip.
The MERIT disk is a proven aid. It saved me! Thanks.
Respectfully,
Kevin Tinny

[Fred Jr]

Merit Device and special glasses or I would just have to stay home. I was thinking though that maybe for us older gentlemen maybe it is time to me able to use one of them there electrical type sights! They work very well for tired eyes!

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Fred,

Glad to hear that you are using the Merit with your Sharps. Like you, I would not be able to shoot a carbine with a similar rear sight location without the Merit under low light. Now if they would just let us put tang sights on our muskets. By the way those electric sights work great on just about everything don't they? I love them on handguns.

Look forward to seeing you in a few weeks.

[ian45662]

I am assuming that all of you who are arguing about maynards and sharps have never shot the most accurate carbine on the line?!!??!? Sure sometimes the cases get stuck.... SOMETIMES but not all the time and its nothing a pair of pliers cant fix in short order. Sure the brass cases are on the pricey side and sure it had a horrible reputation during the war but mark my words. The lowly GALLAGHER will be heard from in 2015. I would also like to add to the sharps by saying that I have never experienced the ignition problems that I have hear about with the sharps other than once and that was with nipples I bought from track of the wolf. I opened the flash hole of the nipple ever so slightly and has was back to firing with each pull of the trigger

[ian45662]

I hope yall know I am only kidding but seriously...... Gallagher!!

[Moonpie]

Thanks for the replies. (I think. LoL)

On to another question: Musket caps
I want RWS caps correct? CCI caps = junk?
Where can I find these mail order?

Bullets: I'll go with Pedersoli. What caliber mould do I need?

[ian45662]

http://www.powderinc.com/ That would be powder and primers. For mold I would consider a moose mould. They are awesome moulds and they make a double cavity mould. The 544 diam xmas tree mould would be what you want if your getting the pedersoli sharps which is a fine weapon. http://moosemoulds.wix.com/mm2013#!sharpsxmas/chez

[ms3635v]

I agree with Ian on the Moose bullet. I shoot the 544 Christmas tree bullet cast in a two cavity mould. It works great in my Shilo Sharps carbine. But, having said that, each of us use the bullet that works best for us.

[Moonpie]

I went with a Pedersoli 1859 Sharps carbine.
Supposed to arrive in about a week.
The Moose Molds/bullet look very nice. I will order a double cavity .544

Are the factory nipples ok? Should I swap them out with aftermarket? What is the thread pitch on them?

Another dumb question: Ever try to make a paper cartridge tube out of a cigarette rolling paper?

[ian45662]

If you go on YouTube and search the portsmouth armory channel you will find my channel. Hit the videos tab on my channel and watch the 2 part video series I made on making sharps ammo. And please subscribe!!

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

You can make tubes out of rolling papers, but I believe that this is an expensive way to go. I heard that there are taxes on rolling papers since they are used to make cigarettes.

The Pedersoli nipple that comes with your gun should be fine, but you may want to open it up. Try the gun and if you have ignition problems, use a numbered bit set and gradually open up the flash hole until the hesitation and misfiring go away. I believe that the Pedersoli nipples use a standard musket thread, or at least they did when my gun was made. Lube the threads on the nipple since it makes the nipple easier to remove after shooting. I use Teflon paste on the nipple threads on all of my guns.

The bores on Pedersoli Sharps are a few thousandths smaller than a Shiloh. If you get a .544" mould from Moose you will need to get a sizing die. I would hold off on getting the sizing die until you get the gun. I usually slug the bore with a slightly larger round ball to get the land and groove diameters and go .002" over.

Back to paper cartridges. You can nitrate tracing paper and cut your own paper for cartridges, use cardboard tubes, or hair curling paper. I have also shot my guns with loose powder using plastic tubes.

Best of luck with your new gun.

[Moonpie]

The 1859 Pedersoli came in today. Yay!

Just a few more questions:

On the breachblock, facing in the chamber, is a brass colored spout. The gun came with a small two tipped wrench that fits the face of the spout.
I tried to unscrew it. No way. It is so tight that I was afraid I'd strip the wrench tips off so I quit.
Does this spout need to be removed for regular maintenance/cleaning?
The clean out screw was a major bear to get unscrewed as well. I did get it out tho.
Which anti-seize grease do you recommend for the threads on all the screws in the breachblock?

The chamber insert does not clear the receiver enough for removal. I also purchased the Pedersoli tool to pull it rearward for cleaning.
Is there any special trick for cleaning inside/behind the insert? Special brush maybe? Looks like a test tube cleaning brush would be worth a try?



Overall the gun looks great. Nice grain wood. Nice CC and blue. Trigger is pretty good too.

Looks like a real fun gun to shoot!

[kowdok]

A Sharps would be my last choice to hunt with. The worst feeling in the world is to pull the trigger on a nice deer and nothing bur the cap goes off. All Sharps are unpredictable as far as ignition goes. I have hoarded several thousand CCI 6 wing caps that I use entirely for my Sharps, and even then it may take several to ignite the first round. Usually once the first round goes off, it will continue to fire. These are no longer made, and good luck trying to find some. I second the choice of a Maynard, they always fire, the brass lasts forever, and they are the simplest gun of all I have to clean. The barrel comes off with 2 screws and you just clean the barrel, and toothbrush around the receiver. Plenty of original Mod. 2 Maynards are out there for sale at about the same price as a new Pedersoli Sharps.

[Charlie Hahn]

regarding the spanner wrench and the brass spout, you have to remove the clean out screw first, then you can take it out.

The unit you have should also have two o-rings behind the plate, grease them well before you start. This design configuration usually takes about 8 shots to bind up. Keep an eye on the condition of the face plate etching could start about the 20th shot. Also pay attention to the underside of the gun after each shot. If the fit is not square to the face of the barrel, (very few are) the leak will take the path of least resistance. If it leaks down, it can set your shirt sleeve on fire, if it leaks sideways or up, you will have black specks on your face. Normal nipple leakage is diverted by the hammer, but will sometimes bounce off the radius on top of the block, keeping the nipple hole to about .045 diameter helps to control this. If the cone hole in the block is over .090, it can exacerbate the nipple leaks.

Hope this helps, if you need any additional help feel free to call to talk.

Charlie Hahn
410-208-4736

[jonk]

I shoot a Pedersoli. I don't know what you mean by 'brass spout' and wrench. If you mean the cone coming out of the face of the breechblock, I don't see any provision to take it out; but mine is an older gun.

As for packing the breechblock under the plate with grease, this is what I use:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-grease/=wcmxnq

It also works great on the chamber insert if yours has one that comes out. Using this stuff, I ended my seizing issues entirely.

I will defer to Charlie on leak issues. I know I have some chrome plated breech block plates that came with mine that minimize etching (I'm on my fourth year skirmishing with the same plate) and never had any leak issues myself; but whether the gun was worked on in the past before I got it to eliminate those issues I don't know.

I do know that if you need a breech block job done, charlie is the man. He has several options he can do.

[Maillemaker]

If it leaks down, it can set your shirt sleeve on fire...

What exciting skirmishes you guys must have! :)

Steve

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

One of the problems with the original Sharps was the accumulation of powder in an area of the frame just above the pivot pin which is like a little shelf. A spark would ignite this powder and the fore stock could get blown off. I believe that the Italians modified the original design to eliminate this hazard. But if you have an old original gun with a fore stock that doesn't quite match the butt stock, this may be what happened to your gun.

[Eggman]

A couple of things - I saw there is a new aerosol spray coming on the market that mounts in your back pack and sprays grizzly repellant backward so that when the grizzly clamps onto you, and you pull the rip cord, the can sprays and off goes the grizzly. This might just be the ticket, albeit mounted on the shooter's/hunter's front, and with the bear repellant cannister replaced with a fire extinguisher aimed in the opposite direction, this being the ideal arrangement aimed specifically at Cosmopolitan and Sharps carbine shooters who occasionally set themselves on fire.
It's a near certainty that Moonpie will be looking for help other than of a technical nature in a few years. I don't think it's too eary to make mention of a help website - "The Sharps Image," sponsored by Sharps Shooters Anonymous. Here help is offered to traumatized former Sharps shooters -- individuals whose self concept has been utterly destroyed by the usage (or nonusage depending on whether the gun fired or not) of the percussion Sharps. Advice is also offered on how to regain the sociability and respect of former shooting friends, friends whose former kindness and positive regard was demolished on the ash heap of this demonic firearm.

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Hey Eggman,

You should have included the Hall along with the Cosmo and the Sharps. An improperly adjusted Hall can throw quite a flame and set a glove on fire as well. Of course, you don't see a Hall or Cosmo on the line very often, either.

[Moonpie]

regarding the spanner wrench and the brass spout, you have to remove the clean out screw first, then you can take it out.

The unit you have should also have two o-rings behind the plate, grease them well before you start. This design configuration usually takes about 8 shots to bind up. Keep an eye on the condition of the face plate etching could start about the 20th shot. Also pay attention to the underside of the gun after each shot. If the fit is not square to the face of the barrel, (very few are) the leak will take the path of least resistance. If it leaks down, it can set your shirt sleeve on fire, if it leaks sideways or up, you will have black specks on your face. Normal nipple leakage is diverted by the hammer, but will sometimes bounce off the radius on top of the block, keeping the nipple hole to about .045 diameter helps to control this. If the cone hole in the block is over .090, it can exacerbate the nipple leaks.

Hope this helps, if you need any additional help feel free to call to talk.

Charlie Hahn
410-208-4736

This carbine is brand new/never fired. Has the CM italian proof mark. If I read things correctly CM = 2014 production
This piece has the chrome plated(or stainless) plate on the front of the breachblock. There is one heavy/thick O-ring behind it.
A spare O-ring came in a bag with the small T handle wrench for removing the "spout" or nozzle that directs cap fire into the chamber.
I removed the clean out screw from the block but no way could I budge the nozzle/spout with the little T handle wrench.
Going to order some of the grease you recommend on your website.
The chamber insert does not come all the way out. It almost does. The back edge contacts the receiver too low to pull it up and into the cartridge loading trough.
I think I can clean behind/under the insert by using a rod and brush from the muzzle.
Pulled the nipple. Has a nice large hole thru it. Larger than the TRESO nipples on my Walker-Colt's.

What is your turn around time on a complete breach block job?

Thanks for the info.

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Moonpie,

I had to laugh when I read about the cleanout screw being so hard to remove. I had one on a new gun that was so tight, I actually broke the screw trying to remove it. As for the sleeve, on my Pedersoli Sharps rifle, the sleeve would slide using finger pressure, and I just cleaned the chamber by getting a brush up in there. I believe that I just used lithium grease on the sleeve. Eventually, I wound up getting a chamber job on the gun. It was a pain to do. Since the sleeve won't come all the way out, the barrel had to be removed from the receiver. My breech block was a much older design and lacked the o-ring that you are describing. Welcome to the wonderful world of Sharps. The siren call of the Maynard keeps getting more and more irresistible. Resistance is futile.

[Curt]

Hallo~

And the Wonderful World of Italian Sharps Reproductions! ;) :)

I had to make up a sleeve cuff, similar to what cowboys wore after the 1890's or so, to act as a flash "shield." Being left-handed, her Yeck Smith would set her cotton shirt's right sleeve and cuff on fire...

:)

[Charlie Hahn]

One revision offered by Pedersoli has a 10mm hole in the gas check plate. The cone in the block was replaced by a brass spout that almost fills the 10mm hole in the gas check. It is threaded into the block with a 10mm thread. When the assemble they match drill the cross hole and install the clean out screw to lock it in place. When it is new, and before you shoot it, I suggest that you take the clean out screw out, remove the spout. deburr all the features, re-install with never seize so you can get it apart in the future.

Charlie

[Moonpie]

One revision offered by Pedersoli has a 10mm hole in the gas check plate. The cone in the block was replaced by a brass spout that almost fills the 10mm hole in the gas check. It is threaded into the block with a 10mm thread. When the assemble they match drill the cross hole and install the clean out screw to lock it in place. When it is new, and before you shoot it, I suggest that you take the clean out screw out, remove the spout. deburr all the features, re-install with never seize so you can get it apart in the future.

Charlie

I was finally able to get the brass cone unscrewed. Yay!
Slathered everything with Hi-temp copper anti-seize and re-assembled. Put some anti-seize on the chamber insert too.
Looks like she is ready to go. Casted up X-mas tree style bullets. Got them lubed and ready.
All I'm waiting on now is a day off. :(

[ian45662]

Sounds like you are on your way. What kind of powder charge are you going to use?

[Moonpie]

Sounds like you are on your way. What kind of powder charge are you going to use?

Thought I'd start off with a loose bullet filled up full with 2F. Will play around with load levels to see what the gun likes best.
Been fooling around with the curler paper tubes but they seem to be more of a pain than they are worth.
Ordered some of the brass casings and the modern bullet mold. Once all that gets here I'll give them a try.
The RWS caps came in so it is ready to go shoot.

[Charlie Hahn]

Thought I'd start off with a loose bullet filled up full with 2F. Will play around with load levels to see what the gun likes best.
Been fooling around with the curler paper tubes but they seem to be more of a pain than they are worth.
Ordered some of the brass casings and the modern bullet mold. Once all that gets here I'll give them a try.
The RWS caps came in so it is ready to go shoot.

Hi Moon Pie,

I don't think filling the chamber full is a good starting point. The service charge for these is 64 grains of period 2 fg black powder. The stuff we have a just a tad more energetic. I would suggest 40 grains.

Just a note, be sure you have good safety glasses a shirt you don't like too much, and a hat of similar dislike. There is a good chance the stock breech will leak, and you will have an issue about the third shot where the breech will bind when you try and open.

If you experience the leaking and the binding give me a call.

Charlie Hahn
410-208-4736

[Eggman]

My gosh Moonpie this string is still going! And you're still with us! Well good. At least youi're getting some good advice. Pouring an unmeasured charge into the breach until it's full is not a good idea. In fact there are documented cases where using unmeasured charges like this is a fatal idea. NEVER guess at a powder charge. That "fill the breach" method kind of falls into the old "cover the ball with powder in the palm of your hand" category, another method that sometimes yields fatal results. I never fired more than 50 grains of powder in my .56 cal Sharps, including hunting.
Brass cases for a percussion Sharps. Got to see that. Please post photo.
Modern bullets for an 1859/63 model Sharps. Got to see that. Please post photo.
As Charlie said, keep that breach block well slobbered with grease, including wiping and regreasing every five or six shots (my opinion here).
And again to reinforce Charlie, be sure to wear eye protection and long sleeves..