Romano Spencer rifle loads

[gmkmd]

Anybody have a Romano Spencer rifle in .56-50? Do they use Starline brass, or do you have to use cut-down .50-70's?

[Mike McDaniel]

Larry recommended going to Rocky Mountain Cartridge Co. The Starline cartridges are supposed to be iffy, RMC has brass specifically for the Romano Spencers.

[gmkmd]

Hmm. Saw a used one for sale at a good price (relatively). Already have an ArmiSport that shoots pretty well, and am wondering if it's worth replacing it with a Romano. But now I'll have to factor in new brass (and probably dies), too. Anybody care to comment on how great they are (or not)?

[gmkmd]

BTT. Nobody out there shooting a Romano Spencer?

[Kevin Tinny]

Hello, Dr:

We have emailed each other before on cartridge boxes.

I have three Romano Spencers, a rifle and two carbines. They are superb. Please be aware that Larry changed the rifling twist and barrel steel about 10 years ago to a faster twist works a "little" better. Please contact me at kevintinny@hotmail.com. I can send you a copy of my Romano Spencer notes. There are enough of his Spencers in use to know that nothing is better. RMC brass is the best stuff. If from RMC and used with CH4D 56-50 dies for a "Romano" with Larry's 315 gr, single grease groove bullet (or equivalent profile) in 16Bhn alloy, sized to .512", with 35 -40 gr GOEX 3Fg and SPG/MCM LUBE, accuracy will only be limited by your eyesight. Drop me a note if you want lots more info.

All brass cases will work harden regardless of alloy, etc and shoild be annealed at 1,000 degeees F.

One caution, from Larry to me:
He uses only one reamer and one set of bore dim's for both liners in ORIGINAL and Italian repro's and his copy of the 1860 Spencer. He does NOT have or use another reamer for chambers that will use STARLINE cases.
He said his longer, fatter 50 Maynard bullet is NOT recommended for his Spencer 56-50 bores because it must be excessively sized and becomes distorted.

Regards,
Kevin Tinny

[Mike McDaniel]

Mr. Tinny is probably the most knowledgable person other than Larry Romano himself on how to wring the best performance out of a Romano Spencer.

[Kevin Tinny]

Thanks, Mike:
Eddie Brunner, who can be contacted here and on CAS/SSS, is especially experienced with Romano's. So are the members of the N-SSA Duff's Team. Several on the CAS/SSS Forum have shared LOTS of useful, first-hand commentary.
Regards

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Hello, Dr:

We have emailed each other before on cartridge boxes.

I have three Romano Spencers, a rifle and two carbines. They are superb. Please be aware that Larry changed the rifling twist and barrel steel about 10 years ago to a faster twist works a "little" better. Please contact me at kevintinny@hotmail.com. I can send you a copy of my Romano Spencer notes. There are enough of his Spencers in use to know that nothing is better. RMC brass is the best stuff. If from RMC and used with CH4D 56-50 dies for a "Romano" with Larry's 315 gr, single grease groove bullet (or equivalent profile) in 16Bhn alloy, sized to .512", with 35 -40 gr GOEX 3Fg and SPG/MCM LUBE, accuracy will only be limited by your eyesight. Drop me a note if you want lots more info.

Regards,
Kevin Tinny

Larry restored my original M1860 Spencer Rifle to full length by rebarreling it with one of his barrels (in .56-50), and I'm using his 315 gr bullet so can well attest to its superior accuracy as spec'd by Mr. Tinny. In fact, my first three shots (unfortunately sighters) in individuals at the National, the very first time I competed with my rifle, printed two 10's side-by-side between the third shot in the X-ring -- just about as tight a group as you can get putting three fingers together. If only I could have held that group together long enough to have printed it on my scoring target, I would have been doing great! BTW, I'm using Starline brass and not having any issues.

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Kevin Tinny,

I have a pre 2000 Romano Spencer carbine with a Douglas barrel. Just curious what the change in twist was that Larry made and any impact on the powder charge used. I use the Romano single grease ring 315 gr. bullet with slightly hard lead sized to .512". I purchased the brass from Larry when I bought the gun and I have the 4D die set, also from Larry.

[Kevin Tinny]

Hello:

Larry's first Spencer serial numbers began at 10400 and were hand engraved. All these had a 36" twist and ONLY Douglas BUTTONED barrels. 36" was as fast as Douglas could cut in 50 caliber. Later, when Larry began CUT-RIFLING his barrels, he used serial numbers beginning with 10000, stamped, and shortened the twist from 36" to 32" so that he could use the shorter 315/320 grain bullet and up to 40 grains of 3Fg for less drop at 100 yards.

Larry said he still uses his personal 36" twist with the 315/320 bullet and 40 grains.

At our velocities, using 35 to 40 grains will not change the stabilization, so if your bullet is not wiping/ key-holing, it has all the stability and accuracy you'll get. Crimp only enough to round the case lip. Either SPG or MCM lubes are fine. I found no meaningful accuracy difference between 35 and 40, BUT prefer 40 for less drop.

Regards,
Kevin

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Kevin,

Thanks for the information on the twist rates. My serial number is 10017. If what you say is correct, then I must have one of Larry's barrels and not a Douglas. Any chance Larry used Douglas barrels in the 10000 serial number range?

[Kevin Tinny]

Hello, Jim:

Thanks for sharing your number. My rifle is 10022. The original owner, an active N-SSA member, said that he waited three to four years before it was delivered in July, 2008. It sat unfired until I bought it in March, 2009. The owner preferred his Romano 1st Model Maynard. The carbines are 10031 and 10032, purchased directly from Larry, also in March, 2009. I do not know exactly when they were built, but Spencer rifle 10022 HAS a 36" twist DOUGLAS barrel and the two carbines have his, not Douglas' barrels with 32" twist. Based on what he told me on several occasions, no Douglas blanks were used within the 10000 series, BUT my 10022 is clearly an exception.

Easy enough to check the twist rate by running a tightly fitted tip and patch that follows the rifling. Pick a spot on the rod and mark it at 12:00. Push til that mark is at 6:00 and multiply the distance the rod moved by 2. Please let me know what you find. Tx.

Regards,
Kevin

Edited to reflect corrected frame number ranges being FIVE, not SIX digits and 10022 with Douglas barrel. JKT.

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Kevin,

I checked the twist rate on mine and it appears to be 1 in 36. As I indicated in an earlier post, I bought the gun from Larry long before he was making his own barrels. Two carbines that I bought from him after this one had Hoyt barrels. So it would appear that he was using serial numbers in the 10000 range for Spencer's with Douglas barrels. Both of the Hoyt barreled carbines have two digit serial numbers.

[Kevin Tinny]

Fascinating, Jim:

What I've shared is based entirely upon many pointed conversations with Larry, during which he was consistently and assuredly shared serial number ranges, barrel makers and twists and repeatedly commented that he had never used a Hoyt on any of his Spencers. Please, I am not questioning what you are sharing with us. I have something else to speak with him about so I'll see what he says about a six-digit SN with a 36 twist and Hoyts on his Spencer carbines. Whatever I learn will be passed along here. Thanks so much. The more important thing is that the 315/320 Romamo bullet will shoot well in 36- 34 twists.

By the way, please tell me how you know that the carbine barrels are Hoyt's and what twist, please? Tx. Kevin

[Kevin Tinny]

Sorry, Jim:
Were you indicating that your carbines with two-digit sn's were without either a ten or hundred thousand prefix, please?

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Kevin,

My Spencer has a five digit serial number starting with 10 and was made with a Douglas, not a Hoyt or Romano, barrel blank. The two carbines with Hoyt barrels are Maynards with 2 digit serial numbers 3x and 5x. They do not have any leading digits in the S/N. I did not say that I had a Spencer with a Hoyt barrel. I have a 1 in 36 twist Douglas barrel. Hope this clears everything up.

[Kevin Tinny]

Hello, Jim:

Long chat with Larry this morning. Sorry for my previously posted incorrect info about 100,000 serial number range.
Here is his (THREE -TIMES CHEERFULLY CONFIRMED TO ME TODAY)CORRECTED serial number info for HIS Spencer repro's:

ONLY used 10,XXX serial number range. No single, double, triple digits without the "10" (thousand) portion.
Gardner - Douglas bbl's on early ones all had 36" twists. About 10 - 12 years back he began to make his own Spencer barrels and uses only 34" twist. He recalls using a Hoyt barrel with three lands/grooves and a 56" twist, ONCE, for a Spencer carbine because the buyer wanted that rifling. Otherwise he has no recollection of Hoyt's on his Spencers. Again, he shared that his 315/320 grain, single grease groove bullet will shoot fine with either twist.

More info as of 11SEP19:
Douglas BUTTONED 36" twist barrels on Romano Spencers can have EITHER narrow lands and wide grooves or EQUAL width lands and grooves. Romano-made CUT rifled Spencer barrels have only 32" twist and EQUAL width lands and grooves.

So if uneven width lands and grooves, apart from serial number and twist, the barrel is a Douglas.

Further examination of two of my Romano "two-digit" frame numbered Spencer RIFLES 10022 and 10030 clearly show DOUGLAS, buttoned 36" twist barrels ---- so at least these two RIFLES were barreled with Douglas', probably left over. They are 4140 and just fine. Never say never. Kevin
Edited to include frame numbers on the two rifles JKT.
Since Sept 2019, I have acquired two of Larry's first grouping Spencers in the three-digit range, a rifle and a carbine, both mint. Each clearly has a 36" twist Douglas, narrow lands and wide groove barrel.
Regards,
Kevin