209 Shot Shell Primers ?

[Rick Ramey]

With the high cost and hard to find Musket caps being a real problem today, I was looking at a shotshell primer and observed that they have a flange which would aide in removal from a properly machined nipple. This is just a thought...I know it would need a rule change and someone to machine the nipples, but it just may work ???

[Maillemaker]

I think part of the problem with primers vs. caps is that primers have a separate internal "anvil" for the firing pin to bear against, since there is no nipple to bear against. If you turn over any primer you can see the tiny little trivet-tray-looking anvil inside the cap.

If you stick a primer onto a nipple and fire it, I'm not sure what will become of that anvil. Maybe nothing. Maybe it will fly away (bad). Maybe it will damage or become lodged in the cone (bad).

I have seen a primer adapter replacement nipple, but it is a one-shot affair. It threads in where your regular nipple goes, and has a captive screw mechanism that you unscrew, insert the primer, then screw back on. Thus it holds the cap captive and when you fire it you must unscrew it, dislodge the spent primer and replace it. Not very conducive to high rates of fire.

Still, I think the idea of using primers to replace caps deserves some experimentation.

Steve

[jonk]

While I have no doubt that shotshell primers DO have an internal anvil, the little trivet looking thing is visible only in rifle and pistol primers. The 209s just have a small hole in the bottom.

I have no doubt that with a suitably modified nipple and hammer, these would work; my concern would be, they have rather a lot of priming compound in them. Perhaps more than I feel comfortable with going off right in front of my face...

As to a theoretical conversion, a large nipple with an inside diameter the size of the shotshell primer would work; the rim of the primer would rest on the top of the nipple. The hammer would have to have a small bump welded into its face to act as a firing pin.

Would probably work great with some guns that are a little iffy setting off anyhow, like sharps and smiths and such.

But, as I say, the idea of that much explosive going off a few inches from my face would worry me.

[Rick Ramey]

jonk, that is the exact configuration of primer and nipple I was thinking of when I posted, now we just have to get someone to make the nipple, and of course someone to try it....heck we could always tie the musket to an old tire and tie a line to the trigger and maybe put some tissue paper near the hammer to check for blast back...and hope it does not catch on fire, I think this system will work.

[John Bly]

Quit your dreaming! It will never come to pass that 209 primers will be allowed in any externally primed firearms at the skirmish.

[jonk]

Quit your dreaming! It will never come to pass that 209 primers will be allowed in any externally primed firearms at the skirmish.

If years go by and caps get harder, harder, harder, and eventually impossible to get, it might.

Best for someone to try it out now for days of shortness.

[Rick Ramey]

It may never be approved for N-SSA competition as Mr. Bly says but we could always use them for practice or hunting and save the gold plated ones for competition....as long as we can get them...and afford to buy them, which is getting tough...

[Lou Lou Lou]

Back Creek got a very large order in recently. They are available, just not in time for Nationals. We picked up 50K to hold the team over.

[jonk]

You know, as a side note... I go through about 1500 caps a year. Probably a little more than the average skirmisher. Let's say each skirmisher goes through 1000 or one sleeve on average per year. With 3000 odd members, that's 3 million caps per year.

Now we add in the re-enactor crowd who probably goes through... well less per man, but there are more of them (reenactors that is), so maybe another 3 million.

And so what the heck, let's say joe average shooting his muskets for hunting, target shooting, etc. go through another million a year. In the US that is.

With somewhere between 5 and 10 million caps in demand per year, what's the problem?

Heck for that matter, we SHOULD be able to go up to Dynamit Nobel or CCI and say, "we have a ready market for 3 million caps, wingless and hot."

Why is the free market stuttering here?

[Rick Ramey]

jonk, you are hit the nail on the head...makes you wonder what the heck is up with all this.

[Joe Plakis, 9575V]

Because the free market realizes that there are high-power shooters that go through 5,000,001+ to 10,000,001+ small rifle primers a year.... and the same amount that go through large rifle primers a year, not to mention small pistol, large pistol, and all the other countless primers.

The issue we have is that black powder is an older technology.... and people buy and produce what is new....