Picture of bore condition - what do you think?

[lkmcd1]

I have a Pedersoli P58 2 band Enfield that I bought new in October 2013. I shot it during the 2014 season, probably has a 1000 rounds through it. I am having some recent accuracy issues, so among other things, I took a bore camera and inspected the bore to see if anything looked unusual. All I saw of concern was some corrosion(?) about 2 inches from the breech. What do you think, is this a problem? Also to clean it, I use hot water with soap and pump it in and out of a hose attached to the nipple and then use Ballistol and patches until clean. Possibly I should be doing something more?
Thanks for any input
Larry

2959

[Lou Lou Lou]

What are the accuracy issues? Group size? Fliers? Keyholes?

[lkmcd1]

What are the accuracy issues? Group size? Fliers? Keyholes?

Off the bench, it won't group, mostly fliers +/- 8 inches in any direction. Doesn't appear to be key holing, but I'm using flimsy paper targets which makes it difficult to be sure - going to pay more attention to this next time at the range with better targets. Lead is soft, I checked it. Temperatures were in the 30's which is obviously colder than when I was skirmishing, but no apparent fouling issues. I normally shoot 45 grains 3f goex in the summer which gave me acceptable accuracy. Most recently I tried the usual 45 gr load then 50 with no improvement. After several shots without cleaning, I started cleaning every 10 rounds, no improvement. Bullet is sized to .577, barrel is just shy of .579 in. dia.

[John Maderious]

Looks and sounds to me like you have a lead smear(s) at or near the breech plug. I would suggest putting the barrel in a good vice, remove the rear sight if necessary (so if the barrel turns it does not wipe off the sight), and remove the breechplug. Breechplug wrenches are cheap. A little heat might be necessary, but once you have the plug out you can scrape/clean the lead smears out if that is what you have. Once you take the breechplug out, doing it again is easy, and it becomes almost addictive in that every time you think you have a little inaccuracy you pull the plug and often confirm you do or don't, so it tells you whether the problem is with the gun or behind it. John Maderious WBR 10223

[R Filbert]

Rifling pattern appears to be odd? doesn't look like a three land and grove typical of these barrels- lands and grooves seem somewhat odd -as for the material at the breach does not look like leading but rust. A lot of folks use balistol in their barrels I myself have never bought a can of it - don't like the smell. I use CLP dampening the patch thoroughly and keeping it wet with oil till the next shoot and wiping compleatly dry. I my self believe you have a rifling issue. I know it is fairly new but I have seen worse. One fellow team mate brought to me a Mississippi that had almost straight rifling in it only to have it re-lined which did the trick to get the arm to group well. It had almost no twist, some said it was round ball rifling but it was still way to slow of a twist even for a round ball might as well been smooth. If you can remove the breach plug with out damaging the barrel or plug you may find the rifling is crap. Just a thought on my part . hpoe you find the problem. R Filbert

[Lou Lou Lou]

Don't forget to put a "witness" mark in the bottom of the tang so that it can be realigned properly

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Off the bench, it won't group, mostly fliers +/- 8 inches in any direction. Doesn't appear to be key holing, but I'm using flimsy paper targets which makes it difficult to be sure - going to pay more attention to this next time at the range with better targets. Lead is soft, I checked it. Temperatures were in the 30's which is obviously colder than when I was skirmishing, but no apparent fouling issues. I normally shoot 45 grains 3f goex in the summer which gave me acceptable accuracy. Most recently I tried the usual 45 gr load then 50 with no improvement. After several shots without cleaning, I started cleaning every 10 rounds, no improvement. Bullet is sized to .577, barrel is just shy of .579 in. dia.

If he were still alive, I would have suggested you letting Joe Howard shoot it. Most anytime when I could not get a rifle to group, Joe would ask if he could try, and invariably every time he got it to group when I could not! But as I suggested to another here, if you could access a fixed mechanical rest (some call it a "machine rest") which removes the "human" contributor from the shooting process, would allow you to eliminate whether the wide latitude is the effect of the gun or the operator. Among my current projects is the construction of a replica fixed mechanical rest much like was used in the NRA gun makers trials of the 1860s, mainly with the intent to reevaluate the large bore Whitworth at 1000 yards (see below). This type device would also allow you to evaluate different bullets and test loads, again isolating the musket from any potential shooter error.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii305/rmac1023/Whitworth_Rest23_zpsae2dd834.jpg (http://s267.photobucket.com/user/rmac1023/media/Whitworth_Rest23_zpsae2dd834.jpg.html)

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii305/rmac1023/Whitworth_Rest16_zpsf96f75d1.jpg (http://s267.photobucket.com/user/rmac1023/media/Whitworth_Rest16_zpsf96f75d1.jpg.html)

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii305/rmac1023/Whitworth_Rest14_zps5b4e57a3.jpg (http://s267.photobucket.com/user/rmac1023/media/Whitworth_Rest14_zps5b4e57a3.jpg.html)

[lkmcd1]

Rifling pattern appears to be odd? doesn't look like a three land and grove typical of these barrels- lands and grooves seem somewhat odd -as for the material at the breach does not look like leading but rust. A lot of folks use balistol in their barrels I myself have never bought a can of it - don't like the smell. I use CLP dampening the patch thoroughly and keeping it wet with oil till the next shoot and wiping compleatly dry. I my self believe you have a rifling issue. I know it is fairly new but I have seen worse. One fellow team mate brought to me a Mississippi that had almost straight rifling in it only to have it re-lined which did the trick to get the arm to group well. It had almost no twist, some said it was round ball rifling but it was still way to slow of a twist even for a round ball might as well been smooth. If you can remove the breach plug with out damaging the barrel or plug you may find the rifling is crap. Just a thought on my part . hpoe you find the problem. R Filbert

The P58 Pedersoli has 5 grooves 1:48 twist. The "spot" in the picture may be rust, but I would think that a bore brush would remove some of it, but it doesn't.
Thanks for the input
Larry

[Ron/The Old Reb]

Did you check the crown?

[lkmcd1]

Did you check the crown?

Can't see or feel any issue with the crown. I don't think lead is causing the spot in the picture since I used a copper scouring pad per this procedure that was on another forum and it was not removed:

Go to the supermarket and pick up some "choreboy" pads, there are other brands out there that workhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://rugerforum.net/#) just as well but these are the brand I've used with success.Theseare the copper pot scrubber pads that are round shaped. They are made of copper, not just copper colored so be aware of what you are buying.

When you get them homehttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://rugerforum.net/#) take some tin snips or old scissors and cut a chunk out of one. The strands will fall all over the place so cut these over a trash can. all of those little peices are sharp and if you drop them in the carpet they will be stuck in your feet in the not to distant future. Once cut you will have a bunch of wads and strands of copper "wool", much like steel wool but much coarser.

First clean the bore with some hoppes and a few patches to get the powder residue out, leaving the lead behind to contend with next.

Take some of the copper strands and wrap them through and around an old bore brush, use an old one as you'll be ruining it through the process of using it. Often I will take a wad of the copper and stuff it in the chamber and then push the bore brush into it. The copper gets caught in the brush and takes shape around the brush as well, allowing your to work it back and forth in the bore, without it comming loose from the bush on the backstroke. Using the brush, run it back and forth through the bore, do this over a peice of white paper so you can see all of the lead particles that the "wool" is cutting out of your barrels bore.

The copper is softer than steel so it will not harm the interior finish in the barrel. since it's sharp, all of those "edges" glide through and cut the lead right out.

Also, the "spot" is directly above the nipple vent, could it be a consideration to explain what is causing it?

[Ron/The Old Reb]

"Can't see or feel any issue with the crown"

I could not see anything wrong with the crown on my Zouave eather. But after I had it recrowned the groups tighten right up.

"I don't think lead is causing the spot in the picture"

This was my tougth also when I first look at it. It could just be a shadow from the light reflecting from the breach. I don't see where lead at the bottom of the barrel would keep the Minnie from expanding. Led usually forms futher up the barrel. I would pull the breach plug and see what really is there if anything. Also the next time shoot at a pice of cardbord then you can see if it's key holeing.