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Greg Edington
08-12-2004, 01:26 PM
Hello All,

Introduction

I want to thank everyone again who participated in the co-operative 54 caliber Wilkinson bullet gang mould project. :) The new 415 grain 54 caliber Wilkinson Mk III bullets seem to be performing as well as the earlier 425 grain Mk II bullets, but with less recoil and better wind resistance. :D I probably will do more runs of the Mk III bullet in future, but in the two cavity format due to casting problems that some of the participants have run into. :roll:

Too Much Lead (needed)

I have found out based on user comments that the 54 gang mould uses too much lead for those casters who use a 10 pound lead pot. It basically goes like this, a caster melts 10 pounds of lead and finds out that casting at an even pace of 15 bullets a minute (2.5 throws a minute) they are using a pound of lead a minute which gives them about 105 bullets (7 minutes casting time) before the 10 pound pot starts getting low and needs to be loaded again during which the mould cools and needs to be reheated when you start casting again about 15 minutes later. The 20 pound lead pots gives about 17 minutes of useful casting time or about 255 bullets. The difference is that an occasional ingot of lead can be added to the 20 pot greatly increasing its casting time and production without reducing quality of the cast bullets.

It all comes down to rate of usage since my two cavity moulds cast at about half the pace , but the 10 pound pots can be replenished with lead at this pace and still give good bullets. The two cavity mould because of its rate casting and replenishment can actually cast almost as many bullets as the six cavity mould using a 10 pound capacity lead pot. I got around the problem since I have two 10 pound pots one set up for ladle pour, the other bottom pour, and I just used the open top pot as a feeder for the other. The six cavity moulds are more difficult to produce than the two cavity moulds in 54 caliber so for now future production of this mould will be in two cavities vs. six since at the 10 pound pot level there is no real advantage in production.

Needed Spencer Load Info & Results

Recently several of my friends have been complaining about fouing problems with original & reproduction Spencer rifles & carbines in 50-56. The problem seems to be that the current bullets produced from production moulds do not have enough lubricant to help the bullets wipe the bore of fouling without resorting to grease cookies, wads, etc. under the bullet. I'm currently in the process of putting together some 0.515 412 grain proof of concept Wilkinson & possibly Williams bullets for the Spencer to see if the problem can be helped. I thougth that anyone reading the this post who shoots the Spencer might share their load and results with it on the BB or privately by e-mail. I intend to share my test results with the proof of concept bullets later

Adapting Repro Rifles & Rifle MusketsTo the Wilkinson System

Rifle musket shooters often talk about getting the right load or accuracy tricks such as bullet lubricant, tuning the lock , bedding, etc., and eventually they create a "system" were they get an accurate musket. I talk to and write many people each year about the problems that they have with the accuracy of their rifles with Minie', Wilkinson, and Williams bullets. What many shooters do not realize is that the Enfields, French Minie’, Lorenz, and Springfield rifle muskets were actually set up as system type rifles using specific grades of powder, bullet designs, and lubricant in premade cartridges for repeatable results. The nations that
set up these systems had muskets that were, accurate, easy to load,
and fired reliably.

The large majority of the rifles and rifle muskets produced or purchased for front line use by the US Army were set up according to the Minie’ system which will shoot compression type bullets acceptably, but not with the best efficiency. There are some features that are common to all minie’ and the Wilkinson compression bullet systems that we can duplicate today on modern replicas.

First - properly size your bullets. Bullets should not be more than 0.0025”
undersize for best results i. e there was no more than 0.00125” of windage between the bullet and the bore in the original Springfield M-1855 rifle musket. The Enfield & Lorenz bullets had little or no windage as the wrapper served as a paper jacket and engaged the rifling upon loading.

Second - the weight of the bullets must be consistent and use soft lead to allow the lead to expand and grip your rifling.

Third - get the right countersink on your ram rod head. All the rifle musket systems had countersinks in their ram rod heads that matched the nose of the service bullet. Tests that I did with Gardner and Improved Picket bullets showed ramming the bullet and one seating tap with a ram rod with a ill fitting head decreased the bullet length by 10% and altered the balance opening up groups by as much as 100%! You can reduce your group size by fitting you ram rod to the bullet you shoot. A well fitted ram rod also focuses the thrust of your ram rod into a bullet helping the Minie', Wilkinson, and New Style Williams bullets to "bump up" to bore size without significant deformation.

Fourth - use a good lubricant. All the original military lube formulas use an animal fat or soft grease with high melting temperatures. Use a proven soft lube like MCM, SPG, or if mixing a beeswax lube use animal fat like pigs lard or beef tallow if possible as it has ahigher melting and vaporization point than vegetable oils. The lube needs to be able to
keep the residual fouling in the bore soft. The major part of black powder fouling consists of Potassium Bicarbonate which condenses from the black powder gas onto rifle barrels bore. The soft lead used in rifle musket bullets has a Brinell hardness number of five (5) whereas Potassium Bicarbonate has a higher Brinell hardness number of 15 to 20. The fouling unsoftened acts like sandpaper an a soft lead bullet
fired down a fouled bore. A good lube to softens the fouling keeping Lube “Wetter” and the fouling softer and more is removed by the bullet when shooting. Compression bullets prefer to be dipped in softer lubricants such as MCM, SPG, or fat/beeswax mixes.

Fifth - countersink your rifle bore. The countersink allows you to reduce your loading time by allowing you to index your bullet to the bore faster. Wilkinson type bullets typically have a beveled base that indexes nicely by feel into the countersunk bore. The British rifle tests of 1852 of the Wilkinson rifle using this feature indicated that the rate of increase in fire was 8% over that of the regulation minie’ rifle musket. The Wilkinson's systems increase in the rate of fire can shave seconds off a teams pidgeon board score if several shooter are using it.

Conclusion

Bigger is not always better as it seems that with the smaller lead pot sizes that the two cavity mould can maintain a comparable production rate to the six cavity mould. the Wilkinson, William’s, and other compression style bullets offer a decent alternative to hollow based Minie’ style bullets with some advantages. The compression bullet style bullet advantages are:

1. - Ease of casting (its faster) and less rejects since it does not have a hollow base.

2.- Ease of inspection of solid base vs. hollow based bullets (no dark cavities to inspect.)

3.- Solid based design allows multiple cavity moulds of up to six cavities for Wilkinson type designs increasing production within limits (see above.)

4.- Rifles and Rifle muskets using the Wilkinson system & Wilkinson bullets have a 8% improvement in the rate of fire all things equal over a Minie’ system rifle i.e. Enfield P-53, P-58, P-61, Springfield M-1855, M-1861, M-1863, etc. The Wilkinson systems increased rate of fire can make a difference in team competition (seconds count.)

Well that's it for now folks, please remember to give any information you have on Spencer loads if you can. I apreciate all your help. :D

Best Wishes:

Greg Edington 8)

R Filbert
11-16-2014, 07:26 PM
Greg Robert here , By chance are you still making the gardener mold ? I could use a .580 if you have 1. Also how much are you're gang mold wilkinsons in .576 I have used the gardener since you made it for John. Shot a 97- 4 x with it and broke 21 pigions in a row with it- so you think this wilkinson bullet can help me improve on that? If so count me in ! And as for the spencer rounds you speak of I use starline brass 25 grains of goex and a Lee.515 50-70 long bullet with 3 grease groves in mine using 50-50 beeswax and lanolin with hardly any fouling. Mix according to outside temperatures. If you would like PM me with amounts for each mold please and sizes. Thanks much .R Filbert------ Guess I should have looked at the date on the post you had- been a while- guess I should ask are you still into making them.

Ibgreen
11-17-2014, 09:42 PM
Using 518145 ideal mold .518 run through a .518 lubrisizer with a 50/50 beeswax and coconut oil. This combo does not carry enough lube for my 1868NM 3 band rifle.

my best feeding bullet is a .515 lee 2 cavity cut down to around 360 grain. It needs to be closer to .518 for my gun though. This carries more lube than the ideal mold above.

Kevin Tinny
12-17-2014, 10:56 AM
Hello, Gregg:

Spencer bullet optimization depends upon the barrel. Originals and repro's are all over the place in terms of bore dimensions, twists and lengths-carbine/rifle. There is a lot of Spencer load info in the "SORI" section, here, BUT much of it omits the particulars about bores. If you would please share details about your rifle/carbine, we can be more helpful.

Regards,
Kevin

spadegrip
12-17-2014, 01:31 PM
Hello, Gregg:

Spencer bullet optimization depends upon the barrel. Originals and repro's are all over the place in terms of bore dimensions, twists and lengths-carbine/rifle. There is a lot of Spencer load info in the "SORI" section, here, BUT much of it omits the particulars about bores. If you would please share details about your rifle/carbine, we can be more helpful.

Regards,
Kevin
You guys realize the initial question is 10 years old. I don't think Greg is even involved with this stuff anymore.

dennis g
12-17-2014, 03:37 PM
Mike, Did you ever try the Lyman 515139 mold. I have the Romano mold and the " Smith" mold, but have never tried it. dennis g

Mike w/ 34th
12-24-2014, 01:35 AM
I haven't tried it. I just got one for my Gallager. I'll give it a try in my Spencer the next time I'm cooking up linotype.